Adelle Thompson: How to Negotiate Your Job Offer Beyond Salary

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**SPEAKER_02** [0:18]

What are the other things people should be negotiating in a job interview?

**SPEAKER_00** [0:22]

Annual leave. Okay, that’s my favourite. Annual leave. Annual leave. I will negotiate annual leave, but I think you have to think of lifestyle. Absolutely. I think you have to think of lifestyle. What’s important to you? What do you need? I like to travel a lot. I travel like four or five times a year. Annual leave. Paid annual leave is as important to me as the money. And if you think about it logically, like if someone said to me, Oh, if you take £2K less, but I’ll give you like eight days annual leave, I’ll take the eight days annual leave. Because that 2K is going to get eaten up by tax anyway, I don’t care.

**SPEAKER_02** [0:51]

It’s going to end up the same.

**SPEAKER_00** [0:52]

It’s going to end up the same. All a bit more because them eight days are fully paid.

**SPEAKER_02** [0:55]

Plus you’ve got the time.

**SPEAKER_00** [0:56]

Plus I’ve got the time off. So I love annual leave. Um, I’ll always try and negotiate my annual leave if I can, especially if companies that have great annual leave, I’ll try and negotiate more days. And usually the way I go in is I ask for a higher salary, they’re negotiating me down. Then I say, Oh, okay, well, you can’t pay me what I want. What if you give me a couple days extra annual leave? No, okay. Most companies don’t think about it when they say yes until you start taking it.

**SPEAKER_02** [1:15]

Yeah, because it’s not a big number, is it?

**SPEAKER_00** [1:17]

They’re like, Yeah, yeah, because it’s not a big number. It’s like, oh, she wanted the extra five days’ annual leave. Give it to her until you start taking it. Then they’re like, wait, and you position it correctly through the year, and you were like, offer a really long time. And they’re like, how? So that’s really good. Pension, asking for them to elevate your pension. That’s a massive one. Yeah. Um, anyone who’s listening who’s in corporate, one thing they will always say to me is you can’t negotiate outside a corporate contract. Yes, you can. I mean HR. I’ve seen many an NDA. Many of your colleagues have extra annual leave and extra. I’m one of those people where you have to sign an NDA and I can’t disclose to you. So I’ll tell my colleague, oh, I’m taking like um some unpaid time off. Actually, it’s not. I’m just not allowed to tell you that it was paid because I’m outside of the normal standard contracts. Um, that’s not in my current job, guys. But in previous jobs. Um, so yeah, so things like that, but pension. Or is it? Or is it pension? I’ve definitely negotiated pension. I’ve negotiated things like a parking spot. It sounds really silly, but I wanted to drive to work every day. So I said, can you get me a permit? And then my boss looked into it and was able to get me a permit for like where we were located because we was like in an area where they had permit, and I got a permit for the year. It just meant I didn’t have to take the train. Like it sounds silly, but I think of what can this company. I think of everything I’m doing when I turn up every day and how much I’m giving to a company. Yeah. And then I think about what I can negotiate. And majority of these things I’ve negotiated either in person or like when I’ve been at a job, I’m an email warrior. So I’ll write out everything why I should get it in my email, send it across so they can have a read, and then I’ll go and have a conversation with them. So that’s another tip for introverts. If you are worried to go and ask straight away.

**SPEAKER_02** [2:52]

Pre-send.

**SPEAKER_00** [2:53]

Pre-send, pre-send your email. I do that a lot. Pre-send your email.

**SPEAKER_02** [2:57]

Yeah.

**SPEAKER_00** [2:58]

Because yeah, as an introvert, when you get nervous, you’ve you miss all your words. Like you miss every point. If you’ve already sent the email, they’ll now go back and forth with you on this email that you’ve already sent. So that was always something I did when I first started negotiating. Great, too. Yeah. So whereas now I’m a bit more confident, but those emails, like so, yeah. So things like also following up after, right? Yes. Like, how did you get my email? Like, and I know we had the conversation, but also, and then you can add stuff in. Like, it just helped. Like, emails just help when you’re not that comfortable just saying things out front or taking notes into a meeting with you if it’s one-on-one and then having that conversation. But yeah, annual leave, pension. There’s so many things you can get um your qualifications paid for.

**SPEAKER_02** [3:40]

Yep. Training.

**SPEAKER_00** [3:41]

Training. Like what’s important to you? What is it that you need right now that’s going to help you? And I always say, look at your long-term plan future-wise. What how’s that going to help you? Um, I’ve negotiated part-time hours for full-time money.

**SPEAKER_02** [3:55]

Work from home?

**SPEAKER_00** [3:56]

Yes, work from home. Um, work from home for me now in this market, it’s really hard. People try and do it at their first interview. Listen, when they’ve got six other people that are willing to say they’ll work in the office, and you said, no, I definitely want to work from, it’s too early, but you can start a job, be great. Like I said, them first 90 days, negotiate remote work. I was remote working way before this, like 2017, 2016. I was like, oh, can I get two days, like, can I work from home one day? And I’d just try my luck. And I’d always say, can I try it? And if it doesn’t work, happy to go back. Like when I first ever negotiated part-time hours for the same salary, I was like, don’t want to lose my salary, but I don’t only want to work four days. I thought, let me try four days. They were like, oh no, we don’t think that’s gonna work. I said, listen, if it doesn’t work and for any reason, targets change, teams not working, I’ll be right back here. I knew I was gonna make it work because I’m not coming back. So I made it work. And then when that worked, then I could ask for three days. And it’s but it’s just being tactical and strategic, but definitely work from home. Hybrid is more a thing now, more than fully remote. But if you’re great at your job and you become hard to replace, they are much more willing to give you what you want. I think some people forget that’s an even exchange. What are you giving? What are you telling them that you’ve done for them or can do for them for them to want to give you remote work?

**SPEAKER_02** [5:09]

Right, right.

**SPEAKER_00** [5:10]

No one’s giving you remote work just because you want it. It’s an even exchange. I give you something, you give me something. So I’m asking you for remote work because I’m gonna continue to do X, Y, Z. I’m gonna do it even better, I’m gonna prove it to you. Can we try it out for like three months? Ah it’s just these subtle little things that just change the game, innit? Literally. Because it doesn’t sound as hard as just saying I want for any remote work. It doesn’t sound as harsh when I’m like, can we try it out?

**SPEAKER_02** [5:36]

So you’re almost like unpacking everything that could happen in that situation beforehand and being prepared emotionally, but also like you’re you’ve just got your game on. Yeah. So like it this could happen and I’m gonna do this. And if this happens, I’m gonna do this. Yes. And if they don’t give me the five grand, I’m on him three more days extra on pay. And I want a one percent pension increase. Right. Well, let’s chat about that. Yeah, let’s chat about that. And then because then they’re gonna be like, whoa. And it’s almost like you put them on and then they just go, yeah, all right, then yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ll give you something. Exactly. There you go, right? Yo, you’ve got something. So yeah, oh wow, they’re such good advice. Now, like, what in your eyes is like when you’re going into an interview, like, what’s one of the biggest like red flags for you that you’d see people do too often? Like you’ve sat for your thousands.

**SPEAKER_00** [6:25]

Oh, what the people do, or that the interviewer, like so what the actual candidates do.

**SPEAKER_02** [6:28]

The actual candidates do, so they could don’t have they can not make these mistakes.

**SPEAKER_00** [6:32]

Do not slag off your current company. I know you people want to be honest, but don’t be too honest. The only time I don’t believe in lying on CVs or in interviews, but when it comes to your current job or your previous job, if it was a bad situation, you lie. It’s the only time you and you don’t even need to lie, you you divert from oh, why are you leaving your last company? Oh, do you know what it was great there, but it didn’t give me enough of this. And the this should be something in that new job that they have a lot of.

**SPEAKER_02** [7:01]

Because again, you want to connection.

**SPEAKER_00** [7:02]

You want to connect it, and then you can just divert and say, but I noticed on your role, you do a lot of that, and with my skill of this, I’ll be able to contribute this. So divert. It’s not necessarily lying, but you don’t. That’s one of the biggest red flags. If you come into an interview and it doesn’t matter how great the interview is, if you talk badly about your past company, I think you’re problematic. I automatically am like, you’re problematic, and you don’t know how to, you don’t know how to say, you don’t know there’s a time and a place. I think that’s an important thing, like professionalism. If you’re good with working in corporate, even if it’s 100% true, was this interview the right time for you to say that?

**SPEAKER_02** [7:39]

Yeah, that is so true. Because like, yeah, like actually you know immediately. And also you just kind of know that they’re quite likely to moan about the task that they’re given.

**SPEAKER_00** [7:49]

That’s what it comes across as. And it might not be, they might be great, but it comes across as like, you know, misery loves company. Yeah. Comes across as like, are you gonna be the person now that comes in and the first thing you don’t like, you’re just moaning to everyone, or you’re the person who’s gonna be like, in my even if you didn’t like your last company, in my last company, we did it like this. Or in my last, and it just feels like you’ve just done really well, but now you’ve just come in and you’ve just literally ripped into your like that is such a red flag to me. And also if you can’t tell me, and this depends on the level you’re at, if you’re quite mid-management, senior management, if you can’t tell me how you make an impact in a company, red flag automatically. Because then I just feel like you push papers around your desk.

**SPEAKER_02** [8:26]

Totally, totally. Is there any more that you think of? Like, is it in terms of like is let’s say they’re they’re they’re just talking away, talking away. Is there something that you’re like you catch on to quite a lot?

**SPEAKER_00** [8:38]

Yeah, like if you if there’s no context to what you’re talking about, like you know, some people just talking to fill the air. Yeah, it’s okay to be quiet.

**SPEAKER_02** [8:46]

Okay.

**SPEAKER_00** [8:46]

It’s okay in an interview to say your answer take pause and just take a pause. It’s okay to ask them to repeat a question, take a pause, then answer the question. Sometimes you don’t have to feel the silence. The same with in an interview when people say what salary expectation have you got and you say your number, then they keep talking. That’s a red flag. I automatically know that I can get that person’s number down. So if I ask you what your salary expectation is and you say 40k. Oh, but and you keep talking about any any just random stuff, you’re filling the air. I’m like, ah, this person’s not confident. I’m gonna be able to negotiate you down. Because remember, my job, whether HR or recruitment, is to see how much I can save my company on budget. So then I’m like, you’ve given me the red flag, you’ve literally waved the red flag in my face and said to me, I’m not confident. So silence shows confidence because you say your answer and you just stop talking. People feel that energy, like, oh, okay. You’re a bit cocky, but like they feel that energy. So yeah.

**SPEAKER_02** [9:41]

I definitely absolutely suck at that, but I’m kicking myself now because I’m like, damn, I could have earned loads more money. Wish I’d have met Adelle before.

**SPEAKER_00** [9:49]

People don’t like the silence. I don’t, I don’t know that bit.

**SPEAKER_02** [9:53]

I’m good at stopping when I know I need to stop in the interview. Because I’m like, okay, I need to shut up now and let like myself do because I’ll just speak too forever, otherwise. But then it’s the like, I want 65 grand. And I did, I just know, I know, I can remember doing it. And I didn’t know that actually the key moment there was just yeah, I want 65 grand.

**SPEAKER_00** [10:14]

That’s it, that’s what I want.

**SPEAKER_02** [10:16]

Would you would you throw the Chris at like what are your thoughts on that, or would you just like I would I want 65,000?

**SPEAKER_00** [10:21]

Like you could say, and it depends on where you are. Like now that I’ve had got more understanding of the role, I know the scope of the role, um, 65,000 will be what I’m looking for. Do you think you can meet me there?

**SPEAKER_02** [10:31]

Yeah.

**SPEAKER_00** [10:32]

And then just quiet so that they can respond.

**SPEAKER_02** [10:36]

Totally. How do you handle it where on the job description there’s no salary?

**SPEAKER_00** [10:44]

I hate that so much. Um that’s a lot now. A lot of jobs now um don’t have the money on there. So a couple things. Go on to places like glassdoor salary.com. Old employees have put information on there. Yeah. You can usually find what the old or the most recent banding was. You can have a look and say, you want to be in that band. The other thing I tell everyone to do is you should already have. Remember, I was talking earlier about your walk away number, you should also have your outrageous number. Tell everyone to have an outrageous number. That’s more than you actually want. Your actual number that you want and your walk away. Are you ready to go in and at least say the actual, like 5k above your actual number? So if they’ve not put their salary on there and I know I’m looking for 50k and they’ve put nothing on there, then I’m gonna be putting on that, no matter what, I’m gonna be asking for about 55 because I know I want 50. But I’m gonna try and do as much research as I can. What’s the industry norm? What does that company make? Location’s really important as well. Like you can’t be in London comparing London to outside London and expect the salary. You could do this exact same role and the money will be totally different.

**SPEAKER_02** [11:46]

Yeah, York is not gonna be the same role.

**SPEAKER_00** [11:49]

Yeah, so always can add in your location, add in your experience, add in all of that, but and also ask. Sometimes people are really scared to ask, but most jobs do a screening call now before you have the next call. Don’t make that your first question. When you ask about money first, it sometimes puts companies off there a bit like, oh no, but make sure you ask it. So say, like, oh, I noticed that you didn’t have a salary on there. I know the industry norm. I like to tell them what the salary should be. So I’ll say, um, I know the industry norm’s about 60, 70k. So I just was making sure that that’s sort of where we’re aligned. See what their response is.

**SPEAKER_02** [12:21]

Yeah.

**SPEAKER_00** [12:21]

Because they’re gonna, they have to say something. They’re either gonna say, like, oh yeah, we’re aligned, or they’re gonna be like, oh no, we were thinking of, and they’re gonna tell you a lower number. And then at that point you can start to have a little bit of a conversation. But yeah, just ask. Ask on the screening call, but ask other questions first. So ask about the job role, say you’re really interested in the role, and then make it like almost a secondary thought. Like, oh, also, I just realised you don’t have the salary on. So don’t make it like it’s a big deal. Make it really chilled out. Anything you don’t care about, they don’t care about. Anything you make a big deal, they’ll make a big deal. Yeah. Just make it like it’s not a big deal. So, oh, I just I just realised you didn’t have the salary on there. I know the industry norm is about this. I just wanted to check that that’s what it was. And if I’m really honest, my current role that I do, my part-time role that I do now, they didn’t have the salary advertised. So I knew what number I wanted. So I went in with that number, just a bit higher. They gave it to me, and I was like, I got more. It was too easy, it was too easy, and that’s why I said to me, but but I’m happy because it was still the salary I wanted anyway. I got what I wanted, but I know for a fact they were like, because they said a number, and I was like, no, no, no, my expectation was this. And they were like, oh, okay, give me a minute. Oh, yeah, that’s fine. And I thought that was too easy. I was like, So I feel like I’m at least five, 10k lower than I should be at the moment. Sorry, sorry, I didn’t actually mean I didn’t mean to, I mean, 155. So I in all honesty, when they don’t show the salary, it can be really hard. But I always say know the number you want, ask for a little bit more. And if you get it like I did really easily, you should still be happy because I knew that’s what I wanted. I got exactly what I wanted. So a little bit more than I wanted. So I’m super happy. Although, in the back of my mind, I know I could have got more.