Sam North (eToro): Trading vs Investing Explained

This transcript is auto-generated and lightly edited for readability, it may contain errors.

[0:00] Sammie Ellard-King: Hello and welcome to the Money Gains podcast. This is your host, Sammie Ellard-King, and today I’m welcomed by Sam North, who is market analyst at Trading App eToro. I’m super excited about this conversation. We talk about Sam’s journey from the trading floor to eToro and how he’s now jumped on the mic with his new podcast, Digest and Invest with eToro. It’s going to be a great episode. We’re going to get deep into all things investing from funds to individual stock picking. There’s lots to unpack in this episode. But if you’re joining us on YouTube, please do hit the subscribe button. And if you’re listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please do drop us a review or hit follow. It really does help the show. But for now, let’s get into it on the Money Gains podcast. So Sam, welcome to the show, man.

[1:06] Sammie Ellard-King: How’s it going? You well? Yeah, yeah, very well. Great to great to be on. Yeah, I’m looking forward to to our chat. Yeah, no, it’s going to be a good one today. You know, a bit of bit of difference to you guys. Obviously, you know, you’re an employee of eToro and you’re a big football fan like me as well. So I think we’ve got uh a lot of synergy because I’m I’m a big eToro fan myself, and uh, you know, I’m we’re both Arsenal fans, so you know to unpack, I’m sure. Yeah, there is, and actually just before I came on, I got sent a message from uh a United fan that actually works at eToro as well, and he sent a screenshot of uh a report that’s gone uh sort of global that Man City uh are under investigation uh and might maybe due uh maybe doc’s points. So this would be as an Arsenal fan amazing news for us. Um something to do with uh I just saw it as well. Yeah, um so who knows by the time this this podcast is out, we could know a lot more about it. But uh yeah, no, as an Arsenal fan, it’s it’s an exciting time.

[2:10] Sammie Ellard-King: For sure. Like it, yeah. I mean, the good the what the boys are doing right now, I’m you know, I’ve haven’t seen anything like it for since the uh since the glory days, which you know well, I’m sure we’ll touch on later. But I just want to roll back the years a little bit because you know you’ve come a long way in your career, um, you know, you’re at Amplify Trading before, you’re at eToro now, you’ve been there a few years. Um so I want to kind of understand your relationship with money and how that journey has happened. So when you were growing up, what was your relationship with money when you were a kid? Yeah, it uh I mean the from from sort of the background with with my parents, they were very frugal with their spending, uh, which is obviously as a young kid is is quite frustrating. You know, you always want the the latest trainers or or the best holidays, but you look back at all of that now, and it’s an absolute blessing. I think, you know, not you know, to be sensible with your money, to save for things, to invest for the future. I think they were really sort of good attributes. I didn’t realise that I had, but looking back, you can see they were sort of I was nurtured that way. I mean, definitely when I was in university, like everyone else, I was probably pretty poor with money. Um, you know, going out three times a week and very, very quickly realising I’m either going to need a job or an overdraft here. And stupidly, I went for the overdraft, and uh even coming out of uni, it took a while to get get out of that. But you make those mistakes, you live and learn from them, and uh yeah, I it’s it’s definitely been an interesting journey to get to where I am now. Um, and I take a lot from uh sort of how my parents were and and still are.

[3:50] Sammie Ellard-King: So you’ve had that kind of installed from you into a young age, but you know, as soon as you were let loose at university, like we all do, it’s kind of one of those things I did it too, you know. It’s like, oh my god, free money, and because you’re kind of it you’re on your own for the first time making those decisions. And often, you know, when that happens, you you just go for it because you’re like, I I need to keep up with the Joneses, all my mates are going out every Friday, every Tuesday, every Monday at uni, you know, so you want to be there and be with them, right? Yeah, no, it’s exactly that, it’s exactly that. And uh, you know, it in hindsight, it’d have been great if I had a job because even just working a weekend or two nights a week, you’d have had so much more money to then go and spend and going out and all of this as well. I mean, it’s uh it’s so interesting looking back, and obviously, you know, hindsight’s a wonderful, wonderful thing. You would do so many things different, but at the same time you live and learn, and uh yeah, an exciting time, and and I’m I’m happy to say I’m not as uh as reckless as I was when I was 19, 20, and and 21.

[4:55] Sammie Ellard-King: Made all the mistakes early, get them out of the way, and then plan for the future as you grow actually grow up, yeah. So you’ve gone into you know your journey, you were a youth football player, right? For Fulham and Reading. Yeah, that’s right. I was um How was that journey for you? Yeah, no, it was good. I be I was I was at Fulham for five, six years and running for another two, three after that, really from a young age, and it w it was good fun. I I I definitely uh enjoyed it at the beginning. Football was my first love. It was just something you did as a hobby, uh, and then you get into well, if you’re lucky enough, I guess, if if you get into sort of the academy scene and you you progress through. I I for me I I I quickly realised it wasn’t wasn’t a team game, really, unfortunately, which is why I I fell in love with with football at the beginning, you know, playing with your mates, enjoying it, working as as a whole to achieve a goal. But at an academy, it it you’re out for yourself, really. You know, you very you from very early you hear you’re in the 1%, uh, and then of that 1%, only 1% make it. So, you know, you’re looking round and thinking, well, hang on, if everyone’s out here for their own, they might not pass to me in the right situation, or they might do something a bit more selfish. And I I I’ve got to about when I was in the under 18s at Reading, I was living away from home as probably quite immature at the time as well. So sometimes I do regret it, but I just didn’t enjoy it. I didn’t enjoy it. I think it was a case everyone’s trying to get that pro contract, um, and there was just not a lot of emphasis on the whole team, which is why I got into football in the first place. And I actually stopped playing for about four or five well, sixteen about four years really, until I played again and created a Sunday League team with my mates, which I absolutely loved because you know, Sunday League, we’re not going to go pro. You literally are a team, and everyone’s got the the sort of the same principles. Um, so I was I was incredibly lucky to be in the situation I was with Fulham and Reading, and I learned a lot from that as well. But it got to a point where I just didn’t really enjoy it, and I think in football it it you really have to enjoy it, and it has to be not your only escape, but I think that helps, and for me that it wasn’t the only option. So uh it got to a point where I just hung up my boots, so to say, for a few years.

[7:19] Sammie Ellard-King: I completely see where you’re coming from. A lot of um, you know, my school team growing up was ridiculous. We had multiple academy players in our A team, you know, our B team would beat most A teams back in the day. It was one of those, yeah, one of those setups. But a lot of my friends went to you know, Arsenal or Watford Academy, and it was a really similar thing to you, you know, it was so competitive that actually it took out what they called the love of playing the game, and that for them was uh was a big deal, and you know, so I totally see where you’re coming from. Uh and it happens to a lot of them, you know, the competitive nature of it. If you’re not going to succeed, what happens to you? So what did you do? So you quit you left Reading, what what was your next step? Yeah, I I again a bit of immaturity really. I probably didn’t necessarily have a plan, but I knew at the time that I did want to go to university to have something to fall back on. So I did go to unit, did my A levels and studied sports science at Portsmouth. Uh, and anyone who’s who’s been Portsmouth will know that it’s it’s quite a lively town and the good night out, and and that’s probably you know where my where where I needed the overdraft, where that came from. But I yeah, studied sports science, but probably uh into the first year I realised I didn’t want necessarily anything to do with that, you know, whether it be sort of being a physio or or whatever, it wasn’t going to be for me, but I stuck it out for I need I I want a degree, I’m not gonna quit and just go down my own route. I want something to fall back on, make connections and and then go from there. So again, if I could have my time again, and by the way, I’m very happy where I am now. If I’d had my time again, maybe I’d have tried to think more about the actual role that I would want to do after. But you know, for a lot of people, 16, 17, 18, you you don’t know. So for me, it was a case go to uni, get a degree, something to fall back on, and you can you know, you can uh go from there. Yeah, I completely see where you’re coming from.

[9:16] Sammie Ellard-King: I I I went to uni, I studied music production, and now I’m doing a finance podcast. So um, you know, completely different. It you don’t necessarily know who you are then at all, and you do have to go out and find out who you want to become. Sometimes people have it nailed at 16 and they’re odds on, and they want to know they’re gonna be an archaeologist, and that’s that’s what they’re going for. But you know, a lot of us have to go out then to the big bad world and and do a couple of crap jobs, and then suddenly you go, All right, okay, this is where I’m gonna be. And then sometimes that leads you into careers that you you end up sticking with into your 40s and then realise that. But if you as long as you realise what you want to do, that’s the most important thing. So you’ve gone into from there, and then did you go into the kind of finance world from that period? Is that that step you made?

[10:05] Sam North: So I I I like a lot of people who didn’t know what they wanted to do, took a gap year. Uh did a bit of traveling, living the dream. Um, and uh then I was having a conversation with my dad. And my dad always worked in the sort of the financial world. Uh he was on the trading for at life back in the 90s and then started to do his own thing, mid-90s, and uh, you know, teachers at investment banks and hedge funds and all these kind of things. You know, he’s he’s always sort of had an involvement in that. So and he he used to work with a couple of people uh back in the day uh who then set up their own sort of proprietary trading firm, amplified trading. So he’s like, Well, why don’t you go and um go and learn how to trade? You know, it’s uh you know a way that you could potentially either do that as a career or branch off and and do something else. So I thought, yeah, absolutely. You know, why why not? And uh I did that. Uh definitely had beginners’ luck at it. Um it’s just one of those things where it’s sort of you know, look back now and realise, God, at the beginning you just literally know nothing. So the fact that I started off pretty well was uh definitely luck. Uh so did that and then traded for Amplify for a bit and started my own fund with with uh with a uh uh some well trader that I knew, so a colleague at the time, and Amplify got messaged me a few months later, and so they needed a little bit of help, sort of uh mentoring people during their summer internship program that they run. And for me, it was a no-brainer. I was like, as long as I can still trade on the side, which I could, and you know, get the income from helping out doing the mentoring, it was uh a sort of a perfect opportunity for me at the time and did the summer and amplify were like, look, we we think you’re you’re good at what you’re doing, and it’d be great to have you on full time, and you know, being able to have that income and trade, day trade at the same time was was just so helpful. I think a lot of people really struggle with trading because or when I should say, when they need to make it work, when they need that that income from it. Right. Whereas if you’ve got an income on the side, and that could literally just be you know working in the supermarket just to pay your you know your your your bills or whatever, it just makes it psychologically so much easier. So for me, I had that income already and the trading. I didn’t have to force a trade, I didn’t have to go looking for it. It could it came to me, which is I feel the the best way to go about it.

[12:26] Sammie Ellard-King: So for people kind of for a little bit of context, do you want to talk a little bit about day trading and what that actually entails? Yeah, yeah, I mean I I guess for some people it could be an individual asset that you would get in and out on the same day. You know, for me, my my journey started with with futures trading, trading the S&P 500, different currency pairs of one currency against another, different commodities, oil, goals. So it was a very multi-asset approach. But the theory would be that you would spend only well less than a day in each position. So you would get in say at 2 pm, but you’d be out before the European close at half four, or you’d get in at the morning and hold it for uh you know five minutes sometimes, one minute, obviously everything within the intraday time frame. Um, and yeah, different assets, you know, whether that be stocks, commodities, equities, uh you name it, we we we kind of look to to trade that and and you find out a lot about yourself when when day trading. It was really an interesting uh journey.

[13:31] Sammie Ellard-King: It is it is such an it’s a complete skill in itself, you know, to be able to do that. You you have to be resolute, you have to you have to kind of uh put your emotions aside. As soon as emotions come into day trading, that’s your downfall often. Yeah. Um you know, I I read a stat the other day, it’s like 96% of day traders lose money. And so to be in that four percent of people, you’ve got to be good. Yeah, yeah. I I I I I think you know that that stat is true, isn’t it? And it’s I think there’s another one where it’s like 90% of people lose 90 lose 90% of their money within 90 days, or something crazy like that. And you think, okay, well, when when learning how to trade, probably the best thing to do is learn why these people do lose money. You know, they’re over-leveraged, they’re risking too much, they’re trading too many assets, they’re trading with no edge, whatever it is, and you think, okay, well, that’s the reasons. Okay, let me avoid that. Um, and I think too people are you know too eager to you know become that millionaire overnight when they see a Lamborghini on Instagram promoting trading, and it’s just the wrong mindset to to go in for. Um, it’s it’s certainly a skill that that takes time. And you know, people in the real world know that to be a doctor takes multiple years. You know, to learn to be a dentist is gonna take multiple years, and even an electrician, right? You’re not gonna be the best electrician you are after you know two, three weeks of of learning. And it’s no different with trading, it’s something that does take time to do. So my advice really for anyone looking to get into it is you know, don’t don’t think that you need to make this in the next, you know, even six months. You’ve got to have a plan and don’t force it.

[15:18] Sammie Ellard-King: Yeah, and and mentors as well, you know, getting into that space, you look at it and you think, right, you know, I can do this. There’s people making money, you see those guys on Instagram with the Lamborghinis, and you think, yeah, this is a bit for me, you know, and it it it does rub off on you, you know, this is social media, it’s what it’s designed to do. And you know, I think people can get caught up in this thinking that they can perhaps teach themselves online, and maybe some will get lucky, but you know, you want to be picking up these type of skills for people that have been there and done it and been through the you know the 20, 30 years on the trading floor to to really kind of make an absolute difference to your wallet, I think.

[16:39] Sam North: Yeah, yeah. I I I can’t stress the importance of a mentor, probably in in any aspect of life, but trading is definitely one of those. And you know, we uh amplify the the way it would work back then is people would would come to learn to us to do a course, and they’d be in some cases learning for nine to twelve weeks at a time, and and it was really interesting that I could talk about that for forever. But there was one woman in particular who who ran her own trading course in December. I think she was probably actually trying to spy on us, but anyway, she uh she had a a catch-up with me after, and she said, I just I couldn’t believe you know it just the the impact of actually having a mentor and looking back and thinking, well, if I had had one, because she was she was self-taught herself, she’s like, I would have got to that end journey so much quicker. And it is so true. Look, you can do anything on your own if you believe it and believe in it yourself and all of this kind of thing, but having someone who’s experienced exactly what you’re looking for can speed things up so so quick or a lot quicker. 100%.

[17:42] Sammie Ellard-King: So you’ve gone from Amplify and you moved into eToro. Um big difference in terms of the way that those two companies are set up, and but some similarities there in terms of the assets available. What um what what why did you make that jump? What was the big reason for that? I th I I think for me, just the career-wise at the time, it’s probably the the right move uh for me. Uh the direction that Amplify were going in at the time was uh you know to maybe to be more student-based, which has been very, very good decision for them at the moment. And we did a lot of work with students in the summer at Amplify, and you know, it it was really, really interesting doing that. And I myself I learned a lot from it. Uh so for me it was just the the right step in in my career. I’ve been with Amplified, I think it’s five, six years, and can’t speak highly enough of them. So just for for me, the right step to go in, and also the uh the the sort of the job spec at the moment at the time when I was looking was a really good challenge for me. They wanted to really develop uh their learning on eToro through the what’s known as the eToro uh academy, and I thought I there’s so much I can offer in that department. Uh so it was just a really nice and exciting opportunity for me that fitted my skill set that I had, but also would push me on to develop myself and career. So, yeah, right timing, uh, but also you know, it’s I’m happy I made the the jump.

[19:11] Sammie Ellard-King: And obviously, you talked about the Academy there, it’s one of the few trading platforms or investing apps, essentially, I would probably call eToro that actually offers a real extensive academy as part of their arsenal to keep not only users engaged, but actually make sure that they know what they’re doing so that they, you know, when they are making these trades or investments, um, they they understand what they’re getting themselves into first and foremost, because a lot of people jump onto platforms like eToro and they just go hell for level with no experience. And often if there isn’t that kind of academy as such, is you can lose all your money quite quickly, as we were talking about with day trading. It’s exactly the same thing. It can be, you know, you get you if you’re trading too much and you don’t know what you’re doing, it it can be really bad. And that’s why I think uh eToro is a you know is a good example for people to get into investing. So you you you talk about the academy, what what kind of things are inside of the eToro Academy?

[20:13] Sam North: Yeah, I mean, there’s when I arrived, there there was you know webinars and and stuff like that, but we really wanted to push more of that content out at the time, and we developed or I helped develop uh some some trading courses, so like introduction to trading for those that did want to, uh, and it was like a one-stop shop for everything that you sort of needed to know to then broaden your horizons. Uh so there uh there was a course on that, and then we decided that we wanted to have multiple webinars, but for different things. One that would be like a weekly outlook, there’ll be then two would be like a more technical look at the charts for those again that day trade or swing trade, whatever it would be, and then one for crypto specifically. So we’ve had webinars and courses, but there’s also videos, guides, and all the podcasts on there as well. And actually, we’ve just had a bit of a revamp back end of last year, everything’s been in in sort of the pipeline, and we’ve developed new courses uh as well, which should be released in in sort of March time as well. So we’ve been working closely uh with other people in the team to make sure we can get the you know the best content we can out there. We’ve got a really, really good team of analysts, at eToro, all who come from different backgrounds as well, which will help you know, people got different expertise in different areas. So, yeah, new new courses, new contents, new videos, and and you know, it goes back to an example I quite like using is that you know we don’t make our money from people from people losing money. We’re not bookies, you know, like you know, we’re not a William Hill or a Skybet that you know if the book, you know, if people lose money, the bookies make it. So we are a case of you know, if we how do we keep getting people to use eToro? Well, if they make money, right? And if how do they make money, they’re more educated. So for us it’s a no-brainer. You know, we don’t want to be one of those prop firms that charge you 20 grand to do a course when we can do the course, if not better, and probably better for free and give that to everyone.

[22:10] Sammie Ellard-King: Yeah, that that that’s something that what you know I found really interesting in watching the growth of eToro. I’ve been a user for nearly six years now, and the the platform has changed tremendously in that time. You know, multiple updates, new assets have come on, um, you know, crypto exploded, etc. You know, there’s lots of different things now with the app that perhaps weren’t there, and and the academy for me is one big part of that. You know, I when I first started out, I use eToro over I use it every day for a bit of fun. You know, for me, that’s my fun account. I have my more long term fun account. And SIPPs in with Moneyfarm and with Hargreaves Lansdown, because those are my like, you know, put it away and don’t think about it kind of investment strategy, which you know I think is important. But I also love you know getting deep into the earnings reports and and trading some of those more interesting and fun software and fintech companies that you can’t find anywhere else, you know. So and and having that commission-free aspect to it when you’re trading those kind of smaller amounts is such a big thing, you know. I know obviously eToro makes a little bit of money on the spread, but it it gives access to the markets with these fractional shares, which people wouldn’t have ever had even going back six years ago. So what what what do you think that the big next step for eToro is you’ve got you know 20 odd million users worldwide? What what what’s something new that’s coming to the platform that you can sort of talk about?

[23:39] Sam North: Yeah, yeah, I mean, just on that that commission free thing, I think it is important. Because I’m also with with Hargreaves Lansdown myself from when I first ever started investing, and you know, you’re spending what’s it, 12, 13 quid, aren’t you, per per transaction to get in if you want to buy an individual stock. So for those people who have you know smaller sort of funds that want to have a little exposure to individual spot stocks, it’s not a bad you know way to go about it. But you know, with with eToro, we’re we’re looking to really continue to build and build and build a community. You know, we’re we’re pushing 30 million users now, which is pretty remarkable um the sort of growth that it’s had. And you know, I I think it really, I mean, it’s been on a great journey already, but true during the pandemic there was a rise of that retail trader, that retail investor, and that helped massively with the growth, but now it’s really looking to push on. So there are some you know exciting things in the pipeline. Again, there’s only so much I can say. Uh, I it would be one of those ones where I say, what’s this space? But we’re always looking to you know add to what we have uh and build everything that we we do. So yeah, the the latest thing that’s gonna be easy for everyone to see will be the content that’s on the academy. So from the the the learning uh thing, bits and pieces that we have, we’ve got new courses, new videos, new guides, new blogs. Like if you want to get into investing or trading, everything’s gonna be there and it’s gonna be really high quality. So that’s the the first thing. There are things just round the corner. Again, only so much I can say, but it’s uh yeah, we we we want to be in in, you know, if we look at the next few years all the way up to 2030, you know, the plans are big. So uh yeah, it’s exciting time.

[25:27] Sammie Ellard-King: Yeah, I as I say, I love the platform, and I think one thing that it’s important to touch on is the the social trading aspect and the copy trader feature because that is such a huge USP for eToro, and that’s why I really loved it at the start. You know, you can go in and literally look at some of the top investors, how they’re doing, and then you can, if you want to, you can copy them or you can read their latest reports or thoughts about a certain asset within within the um within the stock market, which can be hugely valuable to beginners. You’re learning of some of these people who are doing ridiculous numbers, and suddenly you have access to them and the ability just to copy them with your own money. What what do you think the impact of that has been for the business?

[26:13] Sam North: Yeah, I I think copy trader is phenomenal. For everything that you’ve just just said there, it’s incredible. When I, you know, you know it’s like where and people listening were as well, when you’re applying for a job, you research the company. Uh before I uh looked to go to eToro, I knew little bits and pieces, but I didn’t know anything about the copy trader. Uh but looking into that, I was like, I couldn’t believe how just amazing it was. And you know, you I remember a conversation that our CEO had, we had like a get together with uh the popular investors, the people that people can copy last year, and he was just having a conversation, and he said, How many people, if I was to ask this question to everyone in the world, how many people reckon that they could outperform Warren Buffett? I mean, you could go to you know Bank Station, you probably get quite a lot of people that think they could. But the answer would be, okay, quite a few. You know, Warren Buffett’s a phenomenal investor, but his returns aren’t like, oh my goodness, you know, like wow, they’re just very, very consistent and very good, of course. But the thing is, for those people that do think they can, you’ve you’ve literally got your track record on eToro that can prove it to people. Uh, you know, it’s completely transparent. And what I really like about it, and I say this to newer investors, is you know, I’m not saying go put your money in there, but you can learn so much from them. You can see how they diversify, you can see even the months of all the top uh performing popular investors, usually September’s a pretty bad month, which is historically when the stock market struggles as well. So you can see those things, you can see how much weighting the top investors have to one asset. Very rarely is it gonna be much over 5%. I mean, that’s a lesson right there. You know, look at the top investors to see how many stocks or assets that they have. Very rarely is it going to be two or three, unless they’re a you know short, shorter term trader. So it’s been phenomenal for eToro, obviously, because for newer investors or people that don’t have time, it’s a great avenue to get involved in the investing world, putting your faith in someone that’s got a track record that you can see everything. It’s like choosing your your captain on fantasy football. If you’re looking to choose who that captain is, you want them to have had a good previous run, you want them to be historically good. You’re not gonna pick someone who’s got a bad track record, so you can do all of that. Um, and obviously it brings newer people into the the investing world um as as well, and it’s it’s that community aspect which I think eToro likes. You can obviously, as you said, you can go onto the field of these popular investors and see everything, you can interact with them. It’s uh yeah, it’s something when I still speak to people now, they’re like, What? That’s incredible. I you know, I’m gonna do that. Because not everyone has time, as you’ll you’ll know as well. Not everyone has time to to invest or you know the desire to want to learn, but they do want to.

[28:59] Sammie Ellard-King: Yeah, absolutely. And that kind of opportunity that eToro has given people to learn at their own pace and as much as you want. Like when I first got into it, I started by I think I came across Wesley and Robert Reynolds, and these guys were just leagues above in what they were saying to you know everybody else that I was seeing on the platform at the time. You know, since then I I follow a lot more people, and yeah, you know, Heloise, one of them as well. She, you know, these types of people, they’re just normal people, and they um, you know, they’re not working on a trading floor, they’re making videos from their bedroom, but their results are unbelievable, and it’s matched by the the amount of people that follow them and copy them as well. And you know, they make very good money off being copied as well. You know, that’s another thing. If you are a success on the platform and you want to become a popular investor and start talking about things yourself, you can do, and you know, that’s a great goal for someone that could end up in a complete career just from your bedroom by trading on eToro.

[29:58] Sam North: It’s insane. Absolutely. Yeah, so I’m gonna touch a little bit about um, you know, you and Josh Gilbert have got on the mic recently and started well, not recently now, it’s been a while, and uh, you know, digest and investors come a long way. I I am a big listener to it, I have a lot of fun finding out what’s going on and your thoughts on on assets. What’s it like being sort of transferring to from the training floor to the to the mic? Yeah, yeah, it’s it’s it’s interesting, and and I’m lucky in a way that Josh and I we get on well. We get on well, we can have like a uh a joke and and laugh outside of work and the podcast and stuff, which I think you know it’s is something that hopefully comes across on on there as well. Uh, but yeah, I really enjoy it, and we’ve we’ve had you know great guests on there, and there’s the spin-off of the digest and vest, which is called conversation with leaders and some of the people that I’ve spoken to over the last year and a half that I’ve been at eToro is just remarkable in in that I can take so much from them. But yeah, I love the podcast. We we obviously catch up every Tuesday, the day before we record it. Uh what we’re gonna talk about this week, and then we we sit down and and uh and go over all of that. So yeah, I I I I like it. Um, you know, usually we’re not we’re not struggling for topics. The markets over the last year or so have just been incredible. There’s always something going on. Um that yeah, we wouldn’t mind a quiet week every now and then. But yeah, no, I I really enjoy it, and uh yeah, we we we’ve like I said, we’ve got some really interesting people lined up too as well that we’ve had on. So yeah, exciting times.

[31:35] Sammie Ellard-King: Some of those guests, obviously, big Arsenal boys, Sol Campbell, Lee Dixon. Yeah, um, you know, you seem to have gone and got your heroes on the podcast, which is uh which is a smart move. Yeah, yeah, that’s it. I mean it’s funny enough. I’m speaking to doing one with Joe Cole um later today, funnily enough, which will be quite interesting. We did a uh a report with Transfermarkt, which people that like their football will probably heard of. They um you know measure all the different transfers and give values to players across Europe, and they’ve done the report which is really interesting. We’re looking at the crossovers between football and investing, so I’m gonna do that with Joe. Uh, but yeah, Lee Dixon uh was was on not long ago, Sol Campbell too, and Sol Campbell is as it’s a very interesting person. Uh and then on the flip side, you know, I speak to CEOs of these multi-billion dollar companies, which is incredible. And and then last week I spoke to a behavioural economist who’s world-renowned, and you know, I I you know whenever I listen to a podcast or watch something, you know, you don’t always not not especially believe, you don’t always take on board everything that the person says because they come from a different background or whatever, but with each podcast, I always take a little bit from it. With this podcast with the with his name is Dan Ariely, the behavioural economist, I took so much. It was this incredible listening to him. And he said something really that really struck me, and he was saying, you know, if we were to do an exercise, and people listening at home can can imagine this, if and if I went into your portfolio and exited all of your positions and put that into cash, firstly, how would you feel? And secondly, would you then with that cash go and put on exactly the same positions? Now, if the answer is yes, that means you’re perfectly happy with your portfolio. Whereas if the answer is no, you know deep down that you still shouldn’t be holding, you know, that stock that’s 90% down or whatever. And I thought, oh my goodness, because I definitely would. I thought it was just so interesting.

[34:46] Sammie Ellard-King: That’s that’s m opened my eyes. Now you’ve said that. Yeah, it’s certainly holding things in my portfolio that I’m waiting till they hit zero and then they’re getting getting visited hard. But it’s the year that we’ve been through, you know. There was everything was flying 2020, some parts of 2021, and then you know, this but it’s a cycle at the end of the day. You know, if you believe in these businesses, eventually, you know, they’ll come back and and you know, if you’re if you carry on in entering the market, dollar cost averaging into these positions, actually, you know, a lot of them will be in profit, whilst some of them, some of your positions could still be negative, but it could even out at the end of the day. So um and hopefully eventually come back into profit. It’s been a been a tough year. It has, it has a really interesting year. I I I think it’s one of those ones where if anyone had started last year, you know, they’ll look back and you’d have learned so much about yourself, about the way to invest, about how not to rush in to be patient. So if you are someone out there that had a really, really bad first investing experience, history is on your side and it and it does get better and just make sure every losing experience is a lesson. And I think that’s you know something that can be so important in this game. For us who are you know not at the back end of our career, you know, we’ve got a long, long outlook. We don’t we’re not looking to make investing returns in six months. You know, it’s you know years and years and years, so it’s uh it’s a it’s a long race.

[36:16] Sammie Ellard-King: 100%. And you know, you touched on it there. It’s it’s obviously been a tough year for people that got into the market last year, but you know, if you’re if you’re willing to go five, six, ten, twenty years, then actually, you know, as you say, history is on your side and these things happen, and actually it’s quite healthy because if you go back to that 2020 time, like things were so inflated, it was insane. You know, it was every day something, you know, even Amazon was jumping five, six, seven percent, and you don’t you’d never have seen that before the pandemic happened, it very rarely would have gone up three percent. That was a big day, you know. And so to get these kind of numbers, it was a bit crazy. So almost now it’s kind of like in this time here, it’s almost like we’ve hit reset. Let’s start again, things are back to normal. Um, and if you’re getting into the market this year, I you know, I’ve been talking a lot about this to people. It’s a it’s a good time to start, and and and you’re you’re almost starting from from a base, which I uh you know, hopefully I would say I say that now and then tomorrow we’ve got we’ve got another black Monday, but you know, these things happen. But um, you know, if if you look at history now is a very good time to start investing.

[37:29] Sam North: Yeah, I couldn’t agree more with that. And and in truth, you know, when markets were going down last year, when markets were going down in 2020, there was absolutely part of me that wanted them to go down lower. You know, I know that, especially from uh an investing in sort of an ETF of the stock market, you know, they go up over year. Time is literally on you know your side. And if I’m buying lower down, I can’t be more happier about that. You know, I’m not doing it you know, every single day. I have my approach, I do it every single month, or if there’s a 10% drop, I get in more. What an opportunity that that is for me to buy lower down. And for those that are getting in this year and have a measured approach, whether it be dollar cost averaging every month or quarter, whatever that might be, you know, don’t worry too much about the bumps in the road and you know, share prices going higher one month and then lower the other, because it all evens itself out. And as we’ve said previously, you know, time is on our side, history is is on our side. 100%.

[38:33] Sammie Ellard-King: Um, I’m gonna ask you, so what was the first stock you ever bought? And do you still hold it today? Is that something you you know that you can share with us? Uh the first stock that that I ever bought was one called Sirius Minerals, which um some people may have heard of. Um I so when I when I first ever got into investing, my old man sat me down and explained the eighth wonder of the world of of compound interest and just had an Excel document up in front of me. And I just couldn’t believe my eyes from the the impact that that can have. So he’s he said, look, here are a few different ETFs, you know, the SPY, one that tracks the FTSE, you know, whatever you can. No matter what you do, even if you’re struggling for money one month, make sure you invest in these every single month. So I I’ve done that for the last 10 years, every single month. And like I said, if if the market drops 10%, then I’m gonna get in a lump sum. But when it came to an individual stock, I had a friend that uh I used to play or I still play golf with, although I don’t play as much as I I would like to. And he said, look, get on this stock. Uh and bear in mind I never invested in an individual stock before, and he’s like, it’s gonna go to I think they were saying two pounds, and it was trading at 14p. And I was thinking, okay, well, I’ll do the maths, it’s a really nice return. And that might have even been less than 14p. Anyway, got in um and at the time built the position up to uh a few grand, which at the you know when I was 21, 22, was quite a lot of money for me. Uh, and it went well, it was going really well. I think it got up to 40p, which would have been you know, over double, triple at the time. Uh, and obviously that came all crashing down. So uh I then got an email be like, look, you need to get out of this position, or we’re just gonna cut you out of it anyway, kind of thing. So yeah, no, I’m not holding that now. But in that was a great lesson. You know, I certainly still over the last few years I get messages from friends be like, Well, you heard about this stock, do this, do that, or you know, being on a trading floor, someone else is in a trade and it’s going really well, and you get FOMO, you just realise that in truth it’s it’s never really worth it. Uh, and there’s nothing wrong with having a little bit of money for your FOMO trades just to tickle that urge. There’s nothing wrong with that. And I still will do that. Um, but I learned a lot from that. That’s uh stock holder.

[40:54] Sammie Ellard-King: It’s about I suppose not going all in on those more riskier things. You you mentioned it there, you know, you’re playing the S&P, you’re playing the S&P 500, the FTSE, and that’s your that’s your wealth, your generational wealth money. Yeah. And then if you’ve got a five percent play pot, which you’re going into, you know, uh a random stock, which as someone’s telling you is going to triple, you’re not really that, you know, obviously it’s never nice to lose any kind of money, but you it’s not you’re not all in on it. And that’s that’s something which I think people starting out don’t realise. They think then that they have to go all in on these types of things to become rich, and becoming rich is the is the long-term aspect of your portfolio. Yeah, yeah, and and it it it’s when the first time I looked when my my dad showed me compound interest, I didn’t really believe it. It’s incredible what can happen with just a little bit every month or every year, just how it snowballs into this big, big pot. And you don’t need you really do not need massive returns each year to get to that, you know. So just doing the stock market. I mean, the stock market returns depends on what period you look at, but they’re you know close to double digits, really, you know, and and that’s incredible. If you get that on top of what you’ve already got every year after year after year, it’s it’s it’s great. And you know, if you fancy yourself at being a stock picker because you believe in a certain industry or company, then and that goes well, then you’re gonna do better than that. So yeah, it’s uh it’s something I think people realise they need or eventually realise they need they should have patience, but they always look back and think, goodness me, I wish I started earlier.

[42:32] Sammie Ellard-King: Yeah, 100%, man. It’s it’s one of those things like I I I love individual stock picking for the pure fact that I’m looking at these businesses thinking if they nail it, they’re the new Amazon, and you know, I’m gonna do very well off that, but then I’m not I I know the power of compound interest if I’m investing each month, suddenly I’m making interest on my interest, and that’s just gonna skyrocket. As soon as I hit 15, 16 years into that, then the amount of interest per year is absolutely mind-blowing. So I encourage anybody to go and do a compound interest calculator online, they’re free, there’s loads of them, and just have a play and see the damage that you can do after such a such a you know, uh that as I say, that 15-year-plus period.

[43:20] Sam North: Yeah, it’s I mean, there like you said, there’s a few free ones out there, and I used to would do talks, and that’s another thing with eToro. We’d we have like a you know community meetups and all these kind of things, or or whatever. And I would was doing like a learn to invest seminar, and going through one of the slides was what can happen, you know, with compound interest. And I was like, look, guys, I promise you this is real, you know, and just for the example sake, I’m not gonna use the stock market 10%, I’m gonna use like four or five percent. And you know, I’m only gonna use say a hundred quid a month because that’s you know, it’s realistic that people who are maybe just starting in could, you know, I hate that saying, if you don’t buy your coffee each day, you could then use that for investing, but it you know, five pounds a day, it does add up, right? 20 days, five, it’s hundred quid. Uh, and showing what that can then lead to to 20, 30, 40 years down the line, it’s just mind-blowing. And then if you do do more, you do get higher returns, you know, you’re you’re getting closer to what I imagine is a lot of people’s end goals of of retiring earlier.

[44:23] Sammie Ellard-King: Yeah, exactly. That that that’s that’s your that’s your that’s your wealth for later in life, that’s your early retirement, and it’s equally your kids set up for the for the for their for their upbringing and the central university fees that they won’t then have to cover with a big fat student loan, which are astronomical interest these days, we won’t get into that. But um any any you’re looking obviously at the markets every day, what are you seeing right now that perhaps someone can take into their first few investments? Well, I I what I find quite interesting at the moment with markets is a lot of people that I respect think the low is in, the other half think it isn’t, and that tells you know, so therefore 50% of people that I think are very intelligent are wrong. And a lot of analysts are wrong. What do I think? I think we have seen the low. I think we go higher this year, and I think we could actually hit another all-time high. However, if I’m wrong, that’s absolutely fine. From an investing standpoint, it’s never been you just you don’t want to be too leveraged into something, you don’t want to have too much risk in one particular thing, and it’s that magical keyword diversify diversification, right? You want to spread that risk across, you know, whether it be different assets or you know, within an industry, different stocks, whatever it might be. I I I think it is a good time to start investing, but I also wouldn’t be put off if you know we do have a headline, and that could be you know geopolitical, it could be a random high inflation number in the US that does send markets lower. I still think there’s another good saying where it’s you know, time in the market beats timing the market. You know, very, very rarely are people out there going to nail the exact low or the exact top. And I’ve just told you there, 50% people think we go higher, 50% we go lower. And they’re all very, very smart people in their own way and got reasons that they think the market does go higher or lower. So uh look, it’s have a plan, it’s be diversified, and it’s to regularly invest, but stay invested. Um, if you’re looking to make returns over the next one, two months, then it’s a lot harder. You’ve got to be a lot more specific in your approach and the way that you go about it and your risk management. But uh remember, time’s on your side, and there’s there’s no time to get in like the present, even if it meant that the first two months the stock market the snow stives. You just know that in two months. Well, I’m buying lower, history’s on my side, market is going to go up, and if it doesn’t, you’re taking a bet essentially against humanity that you think we aren’t going to improve, that you think these companies aren’t going to get better and better and better. And if you don’t think that, then fair enough. But history uh history backs us.

[47:07] Sammie Ellard-King: Yeah, it does, it certainly does. And uh, Sam, it’s been an absolute pleasure coming on today. You know, where can people find you? You’re quite active on Twitter, and is there anywhere else? Yeah, yeah, Twitter. I mean, I have to say, sometimes on Twitter I get a little bit carried away with tweeting about Arsenal, but I do try, I do try to keep the uh investing and trading tweets uh up there as well. But yeah, Twitter, I I think you’ve just type in Sam North underscore zero seven, I’m on there, uh, and then LinkedIn as well, more than happy to to to um connect with anyone out there, really. Brilliant. Well, look, it’s been an absolute pleasure and lots to take away for people, new investors, traders, day traders who want to get into the markets. And so um thank you very much for the for your time today, Sam, and yeah, we look to catch up again soon, hopefully.

[47:52] Sam North: Yeah, absolutely. Pleasure to to come on and and thank you very much.