I’m A Buddhist Wealth Manager: Why You Never Feel Rich (Unless You Do This)

[0:00] Sammie: Sean, welcome. Hi Sammie. You’re a chartered wealth manager. You help people build wealth for a living, but you’re also a practicing Buddhist, which is really cool. You go on retreats, and most people would say that those are opposites. Um, one’s about accumulating, one’s about letting go. How do you feel like those two worlds collide in your life and how do you manage that?

[0:28] Seán Standerwick: Yeah, no, I’ve this is you know me in a nutshell, I guess, and you’re absolutely right. It’s a great observation that these two worlds can work completely against each other. In fact, for my last retreat, it was a question I asked the teacher. I was like, I feel like when I’m here, I’m I get right into it, and then I start questioning everything that I’m doing when I’m outside of that you know, world and the the Buddhism. And actually, last time, interesting, I had almost like an aversion to the teacher who I know and I really like and is an amazing teacher, and I think it’s just partly because it made me feel uncomfortable. But what I would say is that you can make the worlds come together. I think the other thing is is you know, so obviously being into Buddhism, I am very into mindset, happiness, is that you know, sometimes we just want to figure everything out, right? And we want the perfect answer, and also just being okay with maybe feeling like that as well. But what I would say is that it definitely forms, you know, my values. There are like five precepts lived by uh, you know, basically just being a good person. Um, but they do help form my decision. So, you know, for example, do I want to get that flashy car? Um, I haven’t got one at the moment, I might get one in the future, but I know it’s not gonna make me happy, you know. And I did recently test drive a really nice car, and I was like, yeah, it’s pretty cool, but it’s it’s not really like that. Is how much value is that adding? And what I don’t want is the get carried away with the materialism. And I mean, interestingly, my my main teacher from the school that I teach, we had we were on I was on a different retreat with him, and he said, Who’s the wealthiest person here? So bearing in mind, so he’s a monk, he’s monastic. You as a monastic, you can’t own anything really, certainly nothing, no money, yeah. So you can’t touch money. And you know, straight away he put his hand up, and by the way, he is the happiest person I’ve ever met. I’ve spent quite a lot of time and I was quite lucky, and he’s Ajan Brahm, by the way, if you want to look him up, because he’s on YouTube, etc. And you know, I’m sort of sitting there thinking, you know, I’m got a bit of wealth, um, and obviously on paper I’m worth far more than him, but actually it’s a really interesting point, and the Buddha himself said was it uh contentment is the greatest wealth. And I think this is a really good framework and starting point for thinking about when we talk about wealth, because look, we’ve all seen the you know, the richest people in the world, let’s take I don’t know, Elon Musk as one of them, right? I don’t know him personally, but having heard him speak and seeing some of the things the way he is, I don’t think he’s particularly happy because he says it himself. I think he self-diagnosed himself with some kind of mental health problems. Yeah. Um I think there was I remember him saying something like, you know, running a business or something uh to the regard of what he does is like chewing on glass and staring into the abyss. Doesn’t sound like a great lot of fun, does it? And I also remember hearing him criticize, I think it was Jeff Bezos or something, saying you’re you’re on yachts too much, something like you should be trying to go to the boon and all that kind of stuff. He always wants more, it’s never enough, and that is you know, he’s obviously obsessive, that’s why he’s had such incredible success, but at what cost? And for him, that’s what he wants to do, and that’s his lifestyle. No, I’m not judging him for that. But I think that it’s really easy to look at someone like him. In fact, he even says most people would not want to be me, right? It’s really easy to look at him and go, Oh, he’s super rich. I’d love to be rich on that. But would you swap your life with him? Because I know I wouldn’t. No.

[4:58] Sammie: Or even that kind of wealth, because it’s gonna open up a whole barrel of problems that you’re probably not ready for.

[5:06] Seán Standerwick: Absolutely. I mean, you know, people are gonna want to sue you, you know, uh one asking you for money and you know, all these, you know, um people coming trying to take things from you and and wanting your time. So, yeah, so in terms of the the two worlds, they do kind of work against each other to some degree, but I do think you can interlink them. And as I say, having like this foundation of living by what are known as the five precepts, uh, and by the way, I’m not really preacher about it or anything, but it it for me, um it’s really the five. The five, oh you’re testing me now. Okay, so I mean, one of them is uh speak the truth and not gossip. Uh one of them is not to drink alcohol, uh sorry, not drink alcohol, uh take drugs that influence your mind, so you know, recreational drugs, think of them. Um not kill, so abstain from killing. But you know, you can take this further, right? So it’s like if there’s a fly in the room, I I don’t I I try not to kill them, you know.

[6:03] Sammie: Um that’s why you see like um in the Indian streets where they’re brushing the road in front of the monks as they’re walking, right? It’s because they don’t want to kill the animals in front of them. They take it to that extreme.

[6:13] Seán Standerwick: Ah, I didn’t know this.

[6:14] Sammie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is nuts, but I mean, like, you know, I get it.

[6:19] Seán Standerwick: Yeah. And then I think the other two are more to do as right mindfulness, uh, and I think it’s it’s right it’s samadhi, which I would translate as uh because this is Pali, um right stillness, and they’re they’re more to do with meditation, but they go together. So yeah, and and look, that doesn’t mean I’ve got all of those nailed and I don’t make mistakes, but it forms a foundation and a framework for me to live by. And then when I’m making decisions, you know, when I’m running my business, when I’m thinking about my own money and managing that, um thinking about actually what are the most important things.

[6:55] Sammie: Well, like let’s be clear out front, it’s not like you’re saying money doesn’t matter because of what you do. And Naval obviously famously said it, you know, money does solve problems, and you know, it can be this kind of battle that you have. I’m sure you have it with yourself quite regularly if you know you’re practicing Buddhist. But do you agree that money genuinely can solve more problems than than create them from many people?

[7:21] Seán Standerwick: Well wow, I think you you could talk for like a day on that. Um I would say, look, the I think it’s more, and this is where the mindset and the psychology is so important. It depends because if you obsess over the money, then no. And you know, as humans, a lot of us get greedy, it’s just within us. But if you can have a healthy relationship with money, then yeah, and like you say, Naval said, it doesn’t get rid of all your problems, but it gets rid of your money problems, you know. No one wants to be, you know, struggling to pay their bills and food, etc., and always worrying about money. You know, I’m in a very fortunate position where I just don’t worry about money anymore. That doesn’t mean I’m not careful and I don’t think about how I’m spending, but not in a, you know, I just don’t worry about it. And I know if I want to buy that thing, I can. Again, within reason, I’ve talked about a car, but I think where if you can have build enough wealth, as I say, to get rid of your money problems. And I mean, one thing I would say is also, I don’t know if you’re coming on to ask about this, but the really important thing is defining what wealth means to you. So to what it means to you and what it means to make it’s gonna be different. And I think where a lot of people trip up is they want the nice car and to all the material stuff, you know. I want the house, I want the design of clothes, I want to send my children to a private school. The list goes on, and what I’d say is there’s nothing wrong with any of those things, and you know, if you’ve got more than enough money to do it, fantastic, and hopefully you enjoy it. But what you don’t want to do is have those things create so much pressure on you that it becomes a stress, and even if I know people earning, you know, four hundred thousand, and I I really they’re not happy at all. And I can also see, you know, again, not being judgmental, but I think it’s important to to think about this that they’re always increasing, you know, they want everything, and everything needs to sort of be at the top end. And so what I’d say to people is aim for if if you’re not, you know, you’re not got enough money to do everything, aim for like I want the lovely holidays, that’s my thing, or I want the the car, you know, I’m really into cars. So aim for something, and that you think will be meaningful if you’ve got a family, maybe you know, for me as an example, I my one of my priorities was to be able to send my children to school. So that was a big thing for me. So it was like I’ve I don’t live in a particularly big house, you know, massive. Um that was my focus.

[10:06] Sammie: Um you’ve sacrificed in other areas to create the things of value that you want, right? And I I think that’s lovely you said that because you obviously that guy that’s adding 400k, I don’t know, it’s a guy or or or a lady, but the the um the way that they’ve at then upgraded their life to that point is probably preying on their happiness in some degree because there’s always a nicer watch, there’s always a nicer house. There’s never anything bigger. You can always build a bigger house if you really want to do. So, where do you find that balance of contentment and how do you bring that into your life? Yeah, um, what would you do in that example with that individual if they’re Sean? I’m unhappy. How the hell do I like figure this out so I can start like putting some things in play that you know can live my life some on my terms?

[10:49] Seán Standerwick: Yeah, and this is where it’s really tricky, right? Because you don’t want to come across as judgmental. I would try and break it down to talk about, you know, well, how are you actually feeling and talk about the psychology? What is it that you actually want? And you know, did that brand new car or whatever the thing is that you’ve they’ve bought how how do you feel after it? Are you much more happier? You know, actually can you reflect on it now? Some people really struggle with that, and there are some people that you just can’t help as well, and so you’ve got to want to do something, you’ve got to want to be helped. And I would start with trying to define, you know, what what is happiness for you, and what do we need to do to get you there? And also, can we take some pressure off the high expenses? Yeah, can we can we reduce those so that actually you’re enjoying, you know, if you’re going to earn that money, it’s very rare. I’m yet to come across someone who earns really good money, he doesn’t work really hard. So enjoy the fact that you’re working hard, so then you can enjoy the money that you do have and feel the financial freedom that should hopefully give you, not and and not keep comparing yourself to others.

[12:06] Sammie: I suppose it’s an identity in some way, really. It’s like forging your own identity that you can be this individual about who you want to become, and that’s gonna like lead you into those money decisions, it’s gonna give you much more clarity.

[13:04] Seán Standerwick: Yeah, I think I think you touch upon a really important point there, is you know, we’ve most of us pretty much all of us have an ego to some degree. Yeah. And it’s it’s really easy to stoke that, and especially when you do have some material success and in work, etc., and earnings, and therefore thinking actually, is this healthy? Is this and so when you you asked about the Buddhism, one of the barometers I try to think about is are my actions and things I’m doing making me are they wholesome or unwholesome? I.e., if I’m buying all these extra things and spending all this money, is is that actually you know, creating wholesome actions or less wholesome actions? Or actually maybe I could give some money away to a charity or to someone or to a friend. Maybe I’m out with a friend that I know who’s lost their job and I’ll pay for them. Not because I know I can afford it, right? I’m not gonna do it if I can’t, but you know, pay for something, but not and not in a way obviously like I’ve you know I’m showing off, but in a way of I remember one of my friends, it’s giving. It’s giving. And and I remember I never forget one of my best friends uh on my stag due paid, and that was when I drank. Um we were in Dublin, paid for a meal. Yeah, exactly. It wouldn’t have been a great stag do, would it, if it wasn’t a drink. Um and he paid for a meal for everyone, and I was like, Why do you do that? You know, you shouldn’t have done it. And he was like, I can afford it. He was like, it’s just something I really wanted to do. And I was like, Okay, fair enough, and good on you. He was like, if I can’t spend my money with my friends, who can I? And again, like it’s like as you get older, or certainly in my experience, I think when you’re younger, and I think this is like a human nature thing, when you’re younger, you’re you’re more selfish because you’re trying to forge your own way in the world. You know, you start having kids, and maybe you run a business where you manage people, and you start therefore teaching and helping other people. And for me at this point, I find that something so rewarding. And and that is real education, not you know, studying a textbook or something. And it’s the oldest form of education. So again, that’s a form of giving, isn’t it?

[15:26] Sammie: Absolutely, absolutely. I want to ask you though, like obviously you’re seeing all of this kind of vast wealth spectrum across your clo your clients. What’s something that you know that that our audience could take away about how, let’s say, for example, pick someone, a client in your mind, and obviously you don’t have to tell us who, but someone who you feel like has has nailed it and that they’re they’re on the right track and they’re doing the right thing. What is something that they’re doing that the others aren’t doing that someone can put in play and it doesn’t matter if they’re earning 30 grand or 100 grand or 400 grand a year, but that they’ve really got that like you feel like when you look at them, you’re like, yes, mate. Yeah.

[16:05] Seán Standerwick: Yeah, and I think there’s a formula to this, right? Um a lot of it isn’t also rocket science. So uh I would start with the thing of defining what wealth is for you, but even if you miss that, so and and there are a couple of reasons for this, by the way, and being specific about it, you don’t have to do this. I just think it’s important if for happiness. Is number one, studies have shown that by doing so you’re much more likely to achieve it. Interestingly, actually, I came across something I wrote down years ago in terms of business goals before I ran the business, and I just by chance came across it and I realised we’d smashed through like all the most pretty much all the things. And I said to my brother, oh my god, forgot about this, completely forgot about it. Um, so there is real power in that, and also to be able to look back, and then that constant wanting more. This is something we talk about in Buddhism as well, the craving that creates a lot of unhappiness. So rather than constantly moving those goalposts you were mentioning earlier, you know, you want the nice of what you want, the nice of that. So I think that’s really important. But then from there, I would say the what f and the other thing actually I would talk about, and certainly on mindset, is focus on the controllables. And again, there have been studies on this, right? That people who feel they’ve got some control over your life, whilst let’s face it, a lot of life is out of control, or we we don’t know what’s gonna happen, um, are a lot happier. And and I I tell you, uh for example, if I say to you, because I was thinking about this earlier, your life is totally out of control. How does that immediately make you feel?

[17:50] Sammie: Oh, anxiety, yeah.

[17:51] Seán Standerwick: Yeah, it’s uncomfortable. So if I say, well, look, focus on the controllables, can you focus on your career? Because thinking through my clients, I think all the wealthiest ones in terms of you know portfolios and assets have been successful in their careers, and that’s where their m the money starts, not on should I invest in SpaceX or this next hot stock or crypto or whatever it is. And so I would focus on career and just become great at something, yeah.

[18:28] Sammie: You know, or income if you’re building a business, yeah.

[18:31] Seán Standerwick: Yeah, but again, it’s still your career though. So absolutely, yeah. So if you’ve got business, focus on that and make an amazing business. And do you know what? It’s sometimes it’s not that hard. It’s just and and we’ll talk about some investing, but your career’s an investment, right? But the compound, just keep going. Like you, I’m sure. I mean, interesting question for you. You you’ve obviously had some success in what you do. You’ve been doing it for how long now?

[18:57] Sammie: Just over five years now. Yeah. So but learning about it like a decade, so it’s just compounded.

[19:02] Seán Standerwick: There you are. That’s ten years. So ten years, and you just kept going, right? And actually, you did you did a post the other day, didn’t you, on LinkedIn about how you’d had a tough time and found it hard. But you didn’t give up, right? Kept going. And you just keep going. And that’s the a lot of people just give up. And I think if you just it’s by definition, if you keep going at something, you’re gonna become great at it, right? If you think about it, if you work hard and you try hard, you can’t really at some point not become very good at it.

[19:36] Sammie: It’s just like you position yourself for luck. Yeah. Eventually, it might come in year one and it might come in year ten, but if you didn’t give up and you kept positioning yourself for luck, luck will strike. That’s you have to position yourself for luck. If you don’t position yourself, you never receive it. Yeah. And so, like, that’s the way I look at this, and just like that, and I feel like I I I said in that post, I feel like I’m only just getting started, I think I’ve only just begun because there’s so much work still to do in my eyes. Like, this podcast is tiny in comparison to others. I don’t compare it to them. Obviously, you do a little bit, but you know, like I know that I can carry on and help loads more people, and all that means is that I need to continually show up because that’s my controllable. Yeah. I can control how many times I sit in this chair and have great chats with great people like yourself, and that’s like what I can control. And so if I keep doing that and I keep making little 1% tweaks to the next episode, okay, next one I’m gonna try a new thumbnail style, or I’m gonna throw a different power word into the title. I can control that. And then I can monitor that. How do that make me feel? How do the results show up? Blah, blah, blah. Is it on brand? All of those things. And then I can see that and I can see progress. It’s compounding in in every way, shape, or form. Um, but it it doesn’t come easy.

[20:53] Seán Standerwick: No, and then it’s not hard in some ways. It is hard, but it’s not hard in the if you’re just turning up, right?

[20:59] Sammie: Well, that’s the hardest thing about it, is that it’s not difficult.

[21:03] Seán Standerwick: It the hardest thing about it is it’s not hard. Why does that make it hard?

[21:08] Sammie: Because it’s it is about like constant repet repetition and actually repeating the same thing over and over and over and over and over. I said this to some content creators. We were out in Cambridge yesterday and doing like a bunch of um of videos all day, and we were all asking each other the same questions, and by the end of it, some of them were a little bit tired, and then I was like, look, having answered these questions probably a hundred times, you have no idea whether that is the first person that’s seeing you answer that question. And that is when someone says go or that camera goes on, that’s what I have to have in my head to be able to consistently because otherwise I just turn up and say, sort your pension out, grow your income, do a stocks and shares ICE, sinking funds, manage your money. That’s personal finance in a nutshell. It’s the million different ways it can be spun, and it’s about repetition to get that someone in someone’s head. I I you can’t expect someone to walk out of the studio and go, tick, I know everything I need to know about personal finance. It’s not the case. They need to be fed it a mob multiple times to for it to go in and sync and then finally take action. And it’s the power of seven and all of those types of things has to like really sink in for that individual. So, you know, it’s the same with with with with this. It’s it’s it’s constant repetition.

[22:28] Seán Standerwick: Absolutely. So yeah, I’d say you know, if you focus on your career and and uh whatever that is, whether it’s running a business or employee, and and therefore eventually you should have some some decent earnings. And and then, you know, again, like some of this stuff you you know is is not um rocket science, right? But they invest when they get bonuses, uh, they invest monthly, when they change jobs, they sort their pensions out. And so, you know, I’ve had clients have come on with say a hundred thousand and now they’ve got over a million and these are the things they’ve done. And again, talking about that compounding, to give you an example, if you invest £100,000 and then contribute a thousand pounds per month, in about 21 years that would be worth a million. And sorry, if it was growing at seven percent. Yeah. Right.

[23:24] Sammie: So average average returns.

[23:26] Seán Standerwick: So we’re not talking like ridiculous returns. And yes, there will be years where it drops a lot more and years where it could make more and it’s not guaranteed and all that. But it’s if you just do that, something like that, you know, it doesn’t have to be those amounts, you can see how the power of compounding and the power of time. So I would say that career, you know, not spending more than what you have coming in. I mean it’s it’s very sounds very basic, but the amount of people like we were just talking about the lifestyle creep and all of that is so important to make sure that that is the starting point. And then you invest the surplus and automate it. So it’s not a decision. It just comes out monthly. You don’t see that money and have the choice of spending it and just keep that going. And then as I say, you know, invest it um and and I think the big one is as I say is time. You know um I think people away you know my experience especially when they first come to me very short term or if I just speak to you know people ask me when they find out what I do or where should I invest now? Again we’ve mentioned this but it you know it’s more less focus on those controllables and do the basics very well so that if you invest over the long term you know in something decent you will you know I can’t can’t guarantee but you will make money. I also found this really interesting um Warren Buffett read this the other day so he’s averaged about 20% returns uh every year which is obviously pretty exceptional but when you think he’s one of those with dividends included right I think it’s yeah I think that I think that is dividends because it includes the point around this is the compounding isn’t it and he what so he’s invested since he was about ten or eleven and he’s now I think he’s about to turn 96 and he he’s made was it 95% of his wealth since he’s been over the age of 65 when he was 30 he the estimates are that he was worth about one million dollars and now he’s worth about 140 billion.

[25:47] Sammie: Berkshire halfway market caps like 380 billion so yeah crazy.

[25:51] Seán Standerwick: Yeah it’s nuts um and you know there have been other investors that have made far higher returns but they just haven’t done it as long and that is the power of compounding and time in the markets. And so you know don’t think I want to invest for a year or two try and try and think decades or and again it depends what your goals are.

[26:16] Sammie: Yeah well you know if you’d have taken me out of this today and took me back 10 years and told me that I’d be here today and 10 years later I would bite your hand off. But I also would have respected the fact that I probably would have thought more could be done too but actually having been here where I am now and this is what I think I’m an average dude man. I’m an average dude I went you know went out and learned all of this stuff and fell in love with it and now I love teaching it and talking about it with with people like yourself and I complet my life’s completely different. Completely different in a you I think you underestimate what you can do in a year but you grossly underestimate what can be done in a decade and it can you can flip your life around a tenfold um and I’m very grateful for that now with that experience and wisdom to be able to look back and it just makes me think like wow if I’m if I’m in this position and I can I have the same decade like where where am I going to be but now I’m battling with the like actually do I want all of that? Do I do I feel contented or do I want the five million pounds net worth and a big house like I don’t do I I don’t know. And and my goals have changed loads as well as as I’ve grown up and I’ve learned about myself and what I enjoy. That’s why I asked about identity I’ve forged in myself my own identity I now know what I really want to do but I know how much it costs and it’s actually a lot less than what I thought it would. And so actually the journey for me now I’ve taken a little bit of foot off the gas touch because I’m like not with life and career and business building or stuff like that just but the from the pressure of like got to get so much money into my investment pots, got to do all of this, got to do that. Because it just doesn’t fill up my cup in the same way I also want to enjoy some of the some of my money now as well. So yeah it’s it is it’s it’s really interesting.

[28:06] Seán Standerwick: I think as a driven person you it’s really easy to fixate on the end goal and I want this and and also not maybe having a defined end goal and therefore you’re not enjoying the moment and and the journey and you know it’s like it’s we all hear it right and most of us need to learn this the hard way but basically if you you’re only if you’re just so busy with your head down working hard that it’s very easy to get carried away and then you get buzz from it don’t you know if I want more oh I can see portfolio is growing more I can see I’m getting more money if I just put a bit more in and now I’ve got more the compound would be even more in and then you actually um just become obsessed over this stuff.

[28:49] Sammie: Totally and like I had a moment uh quite recently I spoke about this on my socials like um you know I haven’t invested a penny in nine months and because I moved into the house moving into the really old property and uh unfortunately first couple of months it decided to be the time that it started falling apart. So we spent thousands of pounds like doing it back up our emergency fund got whacked so then we focusing on rebuilding the emergency fund back up. And we’ve had a lot going on and during that time frame my investments have just muttered ahead earning if well when I look at it on a 12 month venue like just under the UK under average salary. So I’m like that that’s what’s happened in that timeframe but it’s still grown. Obviously I could have carried on contributing more but there was a different period of life like I was in a different season and I needed to like move things around and this is what I think people can put themselves in these positions to be able to make those kind of decisions by just doing the basics.

[29:43] Seán Standerwick: So we’ve got figuring out your values in your life and where you want to get to we’ve got control the controllables one of them’s career is there anything else in that around controllables specifically um well the expenses right you know just it’s can I control what I spent yes you know um on a personal example uh my wife you know it’s really hot at the moment right and she won some extra fans in her house and she didn’t bother buying any fair play for wearing the three piece out in this heat man so she’s pretty nice to say but um yeah and she borrowed some for for from some friends um because she wanted a few more and I was like this is a really nice fan and I was like I wonder how much it costs it’s like 170 quid and I um you know again I don’t want to pass judgment on people but I know these people have been struggling for money I would not I would think about spending that money on a fan we’ve got like a 60 quid fan which I didn’t think was overly cheap but obviously not the most expensive and blows air it blows air you know and it’s like and and this is you know quite fit the aesthetic of the room yeah and it’s not got like you know the all the options but is it doing 80% of the job yeah you know and I’ve again experienced things like you know buying that really nice fan okay do I get much more out of it? Not really you you probably get an 80-90% out of just having a bog standard one. And that’s true for most things in life.

[31:17] Sammie: Mate mine’s 10 quid I got 10 quid from Tescans in top you got it is very ugly and it’s massive but it does the job. And then it goes in the cupboard you know it comes out at night when you want to go to sleep.

[31:31] Seán Standerwick: So it’s like you can control those things and be be very purposeful is what I’d say about where you’re spending your money. And that doesn’t mean you have to be like so anal about everything if you’ve got the money that you you’re stressed. But again it’s and and I would say also when people are younger I sacrificed quite a lot when I was younger you know I didn’t used to I used to go out and drink and but I would have you know I I wouldn’t do that every night of course and I would think about how much I’m spending I wouldn’t then go out during the week and and go out for dinner. I was like well I would rather cook my own dinner. You know health is very important in this whole equation as well right uh I can be far more healthy uh eat better food and spend less so I’ll do that. Uh doesn’t mean I might not meet up my friend or or what have you but I won’t go out for the for the meal or we’ll do something else and and every now and again you will go out for the meal.

[32:22] Sammie: But again it’s just like or I won’t go on the But it’s the it’s the oh I’m out Tuesday then I’m out Thursday then I’m out Saturday night in a pub then I’m meeting up for someone for a roast on Sunday. And that could you do one of those?

[32:36] Seán Standerwick: That’s the point, right? It’s like you you don’t have to you want to spend time with friends, right? You want to spend time with loved ones. That is really important. Could they come round and now we have a fake away and a beer at a house or whatever instead of the 100 quid that you’ve just dropped in the city parties as well right I mean that they don’t they don’t always super cheap but if you’ve got a group of friends where you can swap it around and then you know people bring if you drink bring your own alcohol but you provide the food and then next time they do it and you can again you don’t have to buy you know the most expensive food but you can do a lovely meal.

[33:09] Sammie: We love this thing of like just looking at where your spending is and when you’re looking at the line you just write next to it like an a cross or a tick. Yeah so it’s like and you want to try and get to the end of like your spending for the month when you’re doing your little check-in and have way more ticks than crosses. If there’s more crosses than ticks you’ve got a problem and so like how do and and people think that okay I can flick a switch and next month’s going to be different. In some cases yes but vastly many of those crosses will take you two three four months even years to correct because you’ve locked into a mortgage or locked into a XY and Z rental property or whatever that might be. So how can you figure things out and move things around to try and get those ticks so you like yes this is and the tick is like this fills up my cup this makes me feel good. And once you get to the end and if you can do that then like you’re laughing. If you get through one month and there’s not one cross in there be absolutely gobs back. But is it always one thing there’s always a decision you end up making on the fly that you’re just like I shouldn’t have made that but you you know you just live and you learn and then you know if you learn from your mistakes you end up better off. And personal finances everyone takes a step backwards they always do but if you’re taking two forwards and as long as the backward step isn’t that catastrophic you’re gonna move forwards.

[34:28] Seán Standerwick: Yeah and I really I’m a big fan of marginal gains by the way so it’s like can I just improve in these one or two things? Like don’t don’t bog yourself down or if you’re like oh don’t want to go through every expense every month and all this well just sit down once and do it and see oh yeah I forgot I was paying for Amazon Prime Netflix and Disney. It’s like do you need all those three like if you really want just maybe just have one. Um or do you even watch it or if you’ve not watched it for two months just cancel it and then if you want to redo it do it. But it you know it’s again having all the things it’s having everything. So definitely expenses are something that is is well within everyone’s control. And then you know by definition if you have less going out than coming in you can’t be poor right so it it’s that basic and then invest the surplus and you’ve you’ve talked about sinking fund I don’t think we need to talk about that probably too much unless you want to but you know uh invest that and and and again for the long term yeah yeah and someone getting started like looking at that sort of build let’s say for example somebody uh you know I walk into your office tomorrow and we sit down and go through my financial plan.

[36:50] Sammie: I’ve got none none of the right accounts open what would you be looking with for at that stage would you be doing would it be pension or a stock and share size or combination of the two?

[37:00] Seán Standerwick: Well it all starts with your objectives all right so what you’re trying to achieve here. So I one thing that is really important when we talk about investing I always talk to people about you know clients and prospective clients is there’s how you invest and that’s the tax side of it and then there’s the where the asset allocation or whatever the thing is you invest in. And so if you start with what are we trying to achieve here I don’t know is it an early retirement is it I want a pot of this size is it and if so but why right um you know I have people obviously come to me about inheritance tax planning. I have people that say I’m just paying way too much tax because you know they’re high earners but they can’t clob it with tax. And they’re like what can I do to be more tax efficient and you know try and work towards an early retirement. So it would start from there if you’re just generally talking about what say building just trying to build some wealth yeah yeah yeah yeah I just need to build myself a little pot. I need to get started at least so I would say that the pensions and ICEs are the first two go-to’s right they’re pretty much the most tax efficient ways of investing in the UK the benefit to an ICER is you know it’s 100% tax free right any growth any income any capital gain you can be an ISA millionaire and you can do what you want with it while it’s in there it’s all tax free. There’s also not a limitation in terms of age right so you can access it whenever you want the pension is way more tax efficient up front so it assuming you are earning money uh you get you know full tax relief on it right and if you’re a business owner you get corporation tax relief as well and so again depends on your situation um and often it’s both so the downside to the pension I’m sorry whilst it’s in the pension it’s 100% tax free 25% of it normally is is uh tax free on the way out and the rest hopefully can be managed to be as tax efficient as possible but will be taxed at your marginal rate. So if the downside sorry to pensions is you can’t access them till you’re 57. So if you say well I want to have the flexibility of you know accessing it sooner if you’re younger then you you don’t want to put too much there um in terms of again depends what your goals are but again if we talk about investing think about long term so why not that the at the moment as well we’re what we’re living in the highest tax burden since World War II since records began yeah and take advantage of the tax breaks out there. So most people don’t so you’ve got ICE reliance you’ve got pension allowance and don’t forget if you’re married or you’ve got a you know lifetime sort of partner you can use their allowances as well certainly ICEs. So yeah in terms of tax environments they’re the first two go-tos pensions and ICEs definitely um because they are so tax efficient. Put it like this you know if you have an investment that performs amazingly but then you lose you know half of it in tax well you could have had a worse investment but netted more. So that’s why you cannot take that away in isolation and that’s actually the first place I start. And and then we look at sort of the actual investment.

[40:20] Sammie: Yeah yeah it’s a tough one isn’t it because I think people struggle with pensions because of that locked up aspect of it. I’ve also struggled this with this myself recently like I’m a business owner so you know I don’t want to pay more in corporation tax so I utilize my pension and it’s grown significantly because of that. You know I’d much rather put money in the socks and shares I know and then my personal reasons for that is um you know I’m 36 years young even though on TikTok I get told look I’m 56 because I’ve got tough paper hand and all of that. Jazz no no in all seriousness the um the uh aspect of me thinking 20 years from now do I know what’s gonna the world’s gonna be like actually frightens me to be frankly honest. And so this is not financial advice but I personally struggle with putting more into my pension than I should because I’m like am I going to need some of that money in liquid in liquid form i.e stocks and shares ISA or savings um and before then and so that I struggle with that a touch even though it I know it’s more tax efficient I know it’s more like so I I play around with that and I think it’s a constant battle around that because I think if you’d have asked someone 20 years ago you know what what what what’s the planet going to be like today they’ve probably said oh it’s gonna be blowing up and it’s gonna be World War III, Armageddon, you know, that type of thing but it hasn’t been and things have carried on motoring on. So I think that will that kind of fear and stuff will never go. Obviously I think it’s been amplified because of AI and then I think it’s been taken back and you’ve got Elon Musk saying money won’t exist in 2036 and then you look at that and think well why what wh why am I putting money in my pension then? I got it yeah but then also he can be extremely wrong and has been and so I think you’ve got to like weigh these things up. If a client asks you these types of questions how do you manage that with them?

[42:15] Seán Standerwick: Well actually recently not too long ago I had someone approach a business owner earning you know a lot of money but a business worth quite a bit of money and he said I need some help but by the way so I hadn’t said anything at this point I’m not interested in pensions I’ve just not so I said okay fine I said I understand that I said but I when I was talking to him also it wasn’t necessarily my first thing I said I I asked him why and then I said he said I just don’t believe and then I can’t remember his exact reason I said well look you know I’m qualified Charter financial planner I kind of have an obligation to just I said it might not be of interest and that’s fine but I’ve just got to explain it to you because if I don’t um then I’m not doing my job and when I explained how they work and how tax efficient they are I was quite surprised uh at the end that he said so this was a phone call actually and then I had a meeting with him when I met him he said oh by the way you completely sold me on the pensions so I’m gonna have it and I was oh actually I you know but the the point is is there’s often that perception that pensions are a waste of time and then there’s that other point that you make around uncertainty long term do we trust that we could have our money or where will the world be? And what I would say with that is go for a marginal gain. Like you know can you afford to put £100, £5000, whatever is affordable for you and just do that and do it regularly. Because if you do invest for the long term and do it wisely you you should build some significant wealth.

[43:56] Sammie: I think the key point you made there is do something don’t do nothing. Yeah so it’s like you don’t have to feel like we’re talking about optimal this over here 1% over there it’s it it do something.

[44:08] Seán Standerwick: Do something just just start just start and then review it actually my pension’s done really well and actually a year later I’m earning a bit more can you just increase that a little bit and then just keep doing that and there that’s a really good point and that’s why I said it depends on your objectives. If you want to have you’re a business owner right typically business owners want some more control over their money and if that’s important to you then that’s a valid reason not to put all your money into a pension um it depends on the amounts you have.

[44:42] Sammie: But again you know if if you’re married you can use your your your wife or your husband’s um ice allowance so that’s 40 grand a year that you can immediately let yourself my missus is a boss so she’s she’s she’s an absolute baller fair play to her she’s smashed it yeah yeah so I can’t use her I think well she’s using it though right yeah but she’s yeah and she’s worked extremely hard to do that. I want to ask you like obviously people are doing all of this work they’re getting to the these points and is it for you around peace of mind or is it around choice and freedom or is it a combination of these things?

[45:21] Seán Standerwick: What is it that’s like the underlying metric that we’re all that people are listening to the show for like what what are they go what are they really trying to get yeah and this is something I think that people other people should also think about what is it for you but certainly from my point of view we’re looking to provide provide it sounds cheesy but provide people with financial peace of mind and you know that also there there’s a nod to the Buddhism there in terms of peace of mind and peace because again why is it that you want to build material wealth And money, it’s not to worry about it. And you know, that’s a common problem I see as well, especially with things like inheritance tax. People get to a point where then there’s and they get so worried about their money and that there can be inheritance tax, and there are things you can do, but it’s like sometimes you have to remind people that this is a good problem to have, and by the way, you can plan for it, but don’t let it completely stress you out and have sleepless nights around it.

[46:17] Sammie: Yeah, because then you’re detrimenting to your health, which is then meaning your life shorter.

[46:21] Seán Standerwick: And and you know, again, sounds cheesy, but is there any wealth without health? No, in my opinion. Um, you know, and and so it’s so important to to make sure that you that you’re healthy. So yeah, certainly the um peace of mind, and what was the other point you made there?

[46:37] Sammie: Um like freedom and choice around decisions, because a lot of us are locked into a lifestyle that we haven’t chose, and they want to try choice and freedom is that number.

[46:46] Seán Standerwick: So for me, that one’s massive because just in my personal experience, uh I was talking to my wife about this the other day. Uh I was like, you know, I’m at a point in my life where I’m, you know, we talked about moving home, and I was like, look, I’m for many years I’ve always been really cautious, frugal with my spending. No, you know, look, I’d I’ve done things like we’re on a stad doing up aid to go on a helicopter ride. I’m not saying I never enjoyed myself I and track dates, but I’m I’m very purposeful about my spending, is the way I’d put it. And so and for the first time I’ve felt in recent years I’ve got to a point where I don’t really have to think too much about my spending. Uh again, I keep it in check, and that’s a beautiful place to be. Where you know, we went to a football match on on Saturday, and my wife said, and so my wife doesn’t really work by the way, so I I earn most of the money. She um, you know, she looks after the kids, so uh that that’s a bigger job than what I do, uh, and way more valuable, by the way. So different, different job, different just to work. Yeah, exactly. And and she was like, Oh, I want this top. And I was like, if you want it, get it. You know, and and that for me was like lovely that I could just she she’s a bit worried because I manage the finances and she’s not sure and she’s good with money. Just just get it, just get it. And and those kind of choices, no, that top not gonna make us super happy.

[48:12] Sammie: What football game are you at?

[48:14] Seán Standerwick: AFC Wimbledon. Oh, right, nice. Yeah. So I wanted to go because we live not far from Wimbledon, uh, and my son’s actually in the pre-academy there. Is he? Yeah, so cool. I thought, uh, and also I know other people that have been, and it’s a really it’s a really cool.

[48:29] Sammie: It’s a homely club, isn’t it?

[48:30] Seán Standerwick: Yeah, it’s really nice. Like the when we were there queuing up to get the tickets, a lady came over, sort of helping us, and then I said, Oh, they said, Have you been before? And I said, No, it’s the first the first match of two kids there, seven and a three-year-old. And she’s like, Oh, wait there. She came over, gave them womble badges. Oh, nice, yeah.

[48:48] Sammie: See, it’s good to little touches like that.

[48:50] Seán Standerwick: So, you know, that was just one example, but again, but that was choice and that was choice and freedom and not feeling the pressure of because for a lot of the time when I was spending, you always feel like a little bit bad, you know. Um, and yeah, and again, like the choice of I can send my son and my daughter to a private school. Um and actually it’s turned out better than I thought. I built up, you know, investments to be able to fund that, but at this point I haven’t needed to draw on them. But I will do everything, and we’re talking about you know, maybe moving house, and if we do, that I don’t for me, my uh the investments are really important not to touch them, or certainly, you know, if I if I’ve got a flexible isotope somewhere, but I’ll make sure I’ll put it back if I do. Um so yeah, I think that is massive, and and then that goes back probably to then uh if you think about it, uh controllable, doesn’t it? Do you feel in co control that I’ve it’s not out of control, yeah.

[49:48] Sammie: What I think that someone can take away from this to put choice and freedom back into their life today, and I I love this, is something called the anti-budget. So I talk about this where um or or or guilt-free spending, it’s also called, is like, you know, let’s say you’re earning three grand a month, for example, and you everything comes out and you’ve got a bit of spending money left over, and you don’t really manage it very well. What I do now is I put 200 quid away into a pot, and it’s not much, but it it’s money that I’m like, if I was at that football game and I wanted that shirt, I’d buy it, and I don’t feel anything because I’ve already just gone like that and given myself permission to use the money um in a way that I see fit. And I obviously, you know, if you’re hand to mouth and uh you’re struggling to to sort of pay the rent and and all of those things, it’s very different. And you know, of course, you’re not gonna put guilt-free spending into play then, but you can put a fiver in there and go and buy your you know the nice cake that you want from the bakery. It’s exactly the same mentality. And it just gives you because we work so hard, and it just gives you this like okay, this is why I’m doing this. And it I since I’ve done it and it’s just such a nice episode, and you know, I have edged it up over time, and I probably would continue to do that. And but I the most important thing is that I have to spend it as well.

[51:14] Seán Standerwick: Oh, really?

[51:15] Sammie: So yeah, you have to spend it.

[51:17] Seán Standerwick: That’s interesting.

[51:18] Sammie: You have to spend it. You can’t leave the money in the pot. Has to go. Um, and so like by doing that, I it’s allowed me to be a little bit freer. It’s allowed me to go into the farm shop and buy the extra, you know, the nice expensive steak because I can. But then next week, because I’ve spent it, I can’t, you know, I’ve got to be a bit careful. And so, but it gave it gives me those moments in my life now rather than waiting until I’ve got two million quid in my investment pot, right? And so I think it like being able to do things with your money as you’re growing and living on the journey, uh, just is quite powerful.

[51:53] Seán Standerwick: I think that’s really important, and I and I love that. And I love the when you I was just imagining, you know, you’re buying that cake or something. If you think if you’ve got friends, family, and you’re going with them, you’re really gonna enjoy that. When when you’re constantly buying them and becomes normal, right? So actually, arguably, if you’ve got less money and you just put a small budget to that, you’re probably gonna enjoy it even more than someone with more money because it’s a treat and it’s guilt-free. Um, so yeah, I think that’s really, really powerful and a great tip for for people.

[52:26] Sammie: Um the one this month is the new Arsenal shirt drop. So I put percent. No, you’re not an Arsenal fan. You’re a Spurs fan, aren’t you? I’m gonna leave. You spares. Yeah. Ah mate, we were getting on so well. We were getting on to this episode’s not coming out. No, yeah, but like it’s you know, it’s it’s imprinted on me. Oh wow, yeah. Yeah. But like that, that was my guilt free this month, and that unfortunately now they’re like 100 odd quid. That’s just ridiculous, isn’t it? It’s nuts, isn’t it? But like that’s my guilt free, and so it’s it’s done, it’s out of the way. I’ve got for 40, 50 quid left in there. So I did top myself up with a few extras on the share and stuff. But like now and it’s cool, and I know that’s there, and you know, I think it’s it’s just a really nice way of just going, oh cool. Well, like I don’t feel any kind of crap about that, and it’s just one thing for me, and it doesn’t have to be a lot of money, and it can make a massive difference to your well-being around how you’re doing things, is that that little one moment of choice and freedom could be quite powerful, can carry you when you’re in a quite a tougher situation or money’s a bit tighter.

[53:30] Seán Standerwick: Yeah, definitely. And I and the the other thing is I see it on the other end where people are so very frugal, or you know, they they get to a point in their life where they’ve got, you know, million, a few million, however million it it is, or whatever the money is, but they then realise I’m not gonna spend this and I’m gonna get taxed 40% on it.

[53:50] Sammie: How am I gonna spend this? Yeah, yeah.

[53:52] Seán Standerwick: Well, they’re just not going to. So enjoy, if you’re being sensible about it, enjoy it’s that whole thing of enjoying the journey as well, isn’t it?

[54:01] Sammie: Um, and I’d rather have less of a massive investment part at the end. I mean, well, what the hell am I gonna do with it? You know, unless I’m obviously like structuring it for kids and stuff like that. But even then it’s like, you know, do they need all of that? You know, should they be forging their own paths? This is just a battle that you have to play. I don’t like I don’t want to leave them with nothing, but I don’t want to leave them with loads either. Like it would be a bad idea. So um I think you know, but yeah, there’s certain things in my life that if I do have uh eventually have kids, and like I think there’s certain things that I want to do. I went to private school until I was eleven, and I think it was like the most grounding thing that could ever happen to me. And then I went to uh normal secondary school after that. Um, and so I’ve seen all sorts of different divides of the wealth spectrum. And but I was that, you know, three to eleven made me into like yeah, I I was made me into the person I am today. Like it was the most grounding, I could speak fluent French, fluent Latin at 11, like and so would I have had that those experiences? Would I would have wanted my kids to have that? Yeah, I would, I would. I think it would be really cool for them. Um, but I think it’s about like what and so I respect your uh private school things for the kids because it’s a you know it’s a goal of mine. If I do have kids too, I think it would be cool to do that for them and give them that opportunity in life. Um, but I’m not gonna be handing them out like you know, just treats galore, and here’s the keys to the Monaco yacht, and you know, yeah, you know, fly yourself from the private jet. It’s just not me, it’s not my style. I don’t think I’d ever do that with them. I think they ha I want them to learn pain and I want them to learn like rejection and and and get up and selling and doing all these things, and I think you only really get that and if you don’t hand everything to them on a silver platter.

[55:46] Seán Standerwick: Yeah, I’m so I am a parent, as I’ve said, and it’s something I’m really conscious of. So actually, I when we were out the foot, my son wanted the shirt, and I normally I always say no when we go to a shop unless it’s a special occasion or something. Uh and I said, Okay, but you’ve got to do something for this, you’ve got to earn it. So actually, last night I took home some leaflets for my business, and I said, uh I haven’t told him yet actually, but he’s gonna have to I s I did say you have to think of something. First of all, I said you see if you can think of something why you think you should what job you could do. Uh obviously he hasn’t come back to me. Terrible seven-year-old. Um but I’m gonna give him the leaflets and I’m I’ll take him. And I did this last year as well, and I ended up giving him like 20 quid. We did like three hours or something of it. Um knocking on doors. Yeah, just putting them through letterboxes, yeah, yeah.

[56:41] Sammie: Um good manual work, right?

[56:43] Seán Standerwick: Yeah, so look, we have someone who does thousands and thousands for us, but uh and I’m not expecting to generate any business on it. It’s I want him to learn the value of money. And as you say, I’m I’m not gonna get it perfect, but I want I want him to learn that he has to work, uh, and my daughter as well, and not overspoil them. And this is where it’s really difficult when you do have a bit of money. It’s like, yeah, I want to enjoy I wanted him to have the shirt, I get excited, but I also don’t want him to just always think, I get a shirt, we’re going to a football match, and uh what’s next? Yeah, and then like you’re saying you you will see it with kids, you know, and then we had some Christmases where we we got on too many presents, and they’re just they become manic, they’re just ripping open, not looking at a next, you know, and it’s like what am I actually teaching my child here? Like the worst things ever.

[57:39] Sammie: Yeah, uh not abundance.

[57:40] Seán Standerwick: No, and and actually, you know, you think about you in your career, right? You’ve uh what’s been enjoyable, probably partly, I don’t know, you tell me, like the working hard and the fruits of your labour. The pain.

[57:53] Sammie: Yeah. If I look back now. The best times were like just before it went nuts. Right. Like just before. Like when you’re like really in the weeds, like if I try this, maybe it can go. Like that’s when I was like, that was actually really, really cool. Now it’s a like you have to find a different type of energy, a different type of like to come back with a and you have to like find different ways of motivating yourself and create enemies that don’t exist because I don’t have any enemies anymore. My enemy that didn’t exist was like, I don’t have any money from my business. I need to make my business make money so I can do the things I want to do. Now I don’t have that problem. I’m like, well, what’s the next problem? Like, what was the enemy that I can create in my head that can drive me to the next the next thing? That’s the way I drive myself. I’m strange like that. I have to have a fictitious enemy. Um it helps me move. But mate, I’ve loved this. It’s been an incredible chat. I knew it would be the moment I chatted to you, and I also would like really love the you know the different side of the way you think. Because it’s not just like uh yeah, give me all your money and I’ll make you loads of money, and there’s no really there’s nothing to it. You really think about the person and the way that they’re growing and what they’re moving towards, and I think that’s obviously come from your you know your teachings and you your your your retreats that you do with with with the Buddhist approach to it, which is lovely. Um where do you want to send people, man?

[59:19] Seán Standerwick: Uh yeah, look, if you want to check me out, um I’m actually just about to launch uh personal brand website. So if you uh you Google me, you’ll find that. Um but you know, at the moment, definitely LinkedIn. We’re actually just launching also a podcast, me and my brother called Beyond the Business. Uh yeah, and you know, my my business MLP wealth. But um if you look me up, um you’ll you’ll find me. But I’m posting pretty much daily on LinkedIn and yeah, take it from there and we’ll leave all those in the show notes.

[59:47] Sammie: We’ll leave all those in the show notes for everyone. Um, and so yeah, check Sean out. He’s you know, he’s he ri he reached out and yeah, it’s just a really cool message and a really nice way of thinking. So yeah, thank you, man. It’s been a real pleasure, and uh yeah, we’ll catch up soon.

[1:00:00] Seán Standerwick: Well, thank you for having me, and yeah, just also big up to you and what you’re doing. I think I’ve one thing I’ve you know thought and talk about a bit is that um financial education is just shocking and we don’t learn it in school. We learn algebra, but this stuff we don’t. So good on you for putting this out there and uh keep keep doing it, man, and working hard even when it’s tough. Thank you, brother. Appreciate it, man. Cheers.