Amy Knight on the Credit Mistakes You’re Probably Making Right Now

This transcript is auto-generated and lightly edited for readability, it may contain errors.

[0:00] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): There is more than 200,000 people in the UK who are eligible to claim child benefit that are just not claiming it. It’s like leaving cash on the table that’s rightfully yours. I’m part of a team of nerds looking into the financial landscape, the economy, and how that affects people’s money.

[0:18] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): You jobled parenting, full-time job, and side hustle.

[0:22] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): I didn’t have a TV for a year, so I was very workaholic. Historically and traditionally, men have been the ones to manage money. It’s changing. Interestingly, I read a statistic this week that the number of joint accounts is dropping. So I think there’s like a bit of a 14% reduction in the number of joint accounts from 2022 to 2024. People are seeing financial independence as very important.

[0:50] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): That’s really interesting.

[0:52] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): If you have left a relationship and you’re finding all of a sudden you’re paying utility bills, you’re paying the rent, you’ve got childcare to sort out, you’ve got to put food on the table, you’ve got no one helping. Help is out there. Me and my partner go on a money date.

[1:07] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): Yeah, so we do the same.

[1:09] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): We’ll like take our laptops, get our spreadsheets out, have a nice little coffee and a piece of cake, and do a bit of monthly budgeting and planning together.

[1:17] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Nice.

[1:18] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Do it together.

[1:27] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Welcome back to the Money Gains podcast. In the studio, this week I have a very special guest in Amy Knight, who is the UK spokesperson for NerdWallet UK. Now, NerdWallet are known as a comparison website mainly for financial products, but they also do some very cool research into global and UK-specific financial topics. And in this episode, we’re going to be discussing all about the UK’s attitude to debt and credit, starting side hustles and what you actually need to be watching out for, and also childcare costs, which are racking up for so many people. And lots of other things as well. You’re going to absolutely love this episode, but stay tuned and let’s get started on the Money Gains Podcast.

[2:07] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): The Money Gains Podcast.

[2:11] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Amy, welcome to the Money Gains Podcast. How are you?

[2:13] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Thank you. Yeah, good. Thank you.

[2:15] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Good. I am very excited today to chat to you. I have been an avid NerdWallet user for many, many moons now. I’m excellent. Your role’s pretty cool there. Lead writer and UK spokesperson. Cool title. What does it actually mean?

[2:31] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): So I love my job because I get to do my three favourite things, which are talking to people and reading and writing. And it involves a lot of learning. I’m part of a team of nerds, as we call ourselves, looking into all aspects of what’s happening in the UK financial landscape, the economy, and how that affects people’s money. So I my time’s split between research, writing articles that help people make financial decisions with confidence and having conversations like this and responding to whatever’s happening in the news that might affect your wallet.

[3:06] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Safe to say you’ve got your finger on the pulse.

[3:08] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): I do my best.

[3:10] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): I think you’ve got I want to kick things off. I want to just kind of get straight into it because I think it’s such a cool new bit of research which you guys have been working on and something that we’ve not touched on on this podcast really in detail before. And it plays such a massive part in our lives. And it’s about credit in the UK. Could you tell us a little bit more about it?

[3:31] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah. So in October, we ran a study across all parts of the UK. We asked adults of all different ages about their relationship with credit. So what do they use? Credit cards, buy now, pay later, other finance options like personal loans. What do they use it for? And importantly, how do they feel about it? And we found that less than half of the adults we surveyed said they felt confident and in control of their spending and repayments. So there’s a lot of people out there who are using these financial tools without feeling confident to do so, without feeling empowered to do so in a way that’s actually gonna work to their advantage. And we also found that more than a quarter of people in the UK

[4:16] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): had not used any kind of credit for the last 12 months. So 26% of people had completely avoided any type of borrowing for a year. And that’s really interesting. There’s two ways to look at this. On the face value, you might say, well, that’s great, they’re living within their means. They don’t need to borrow. That’s a positive thing. That’s certainly something that many of us are taught to do, live within your means. On the other hand, if you’re not using any type of credit, you’re not building up your credit score, that’s potentially going to make it more difficult to access things like mortgages in the future, but you’re also potentially missing out on perks and benefits and discounts that some credit cards,

[5:02] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): for example, might be able to offer you.

[5:03] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yeah, and it’s like I think in this UK, like there’s just a kind of lack of education around the whole topic of credit as a whole, and we’re quite scared of it. Why do you think that is? Do you think?

[5:15] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah, fear factor came through in our research. 36% of the people who had avoided using credit said that they were frightened their spending was going to get out of control. That was the reason they gave for not having used it for the last year. And the high interest rates and high inflation that we’ve lived through over the last few years, that’s created the situation where debt is not just an issue for people on lower incomes. Everybody’s been affected by the rising costs. And even people who’ve got quite a comfortable salary above the national average, say, have suddenly found themselves under a huge amount of financial pressure. Particularly people who took out a mortgage or a

[6:00] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): personal loan when rates were a lot lower, they’ve really been stung. So it’s understandable that people would be cautious and wary of taking on any additional borrowing because it’s like, what’s the economy going to do next? What’s the next thing that’s going to come and trip us up?

[6:17] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yeah, is it going to get worse? Like, yeah. Yeah. And I think like it’s happened to me. Like, I we remortgaged and like it went from, you know, lower than a thousand to, you know, closer to two in one foul swoop. But the thing was was that we had means tested for that to happen. Whereas a lot of people with this kind of interest rate environment that we’ve been having for so long have just had extremely cheap debt. And then suddenly when it all flips on its head and your it rates go through the roof, like a lot of people are then forced to sell or look at like consolidating their debt or you know, uh or they just have to cut back on like the everyday things, which like massively impacts impacts day-to-day.

[7:01] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah, and it’s the everyday costs that more people are using credit cards and buy now, pay later just to get the groceries and put fuel in the car. And they’re the research that we did highlighted that some age groups are more likely to do that than others. The 18 to 24-year-olds, they’re kind of the group that are the least confident in their ability to keep on top of their repayments.

[7:29] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): And then the from a buy now, pay later perspective or for all types of borrowing.

[7:33] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): So credit, buy now, pay later, and another sort of sort of finance. But then the next stage group up, the 25 to 34-year-olds, which you could kind of say a good chunk of them are millennials, they seem to be the ones most likely to be having to lean on buy now pay later specifically for something unexpected. Right. Where there’s something they need to pay for, they’ve not got the money to do it. And it’s, yeah, the the pressure that millennials are under, I think, is quite unique. We looked into why certain people might be more susceptible to what’s called lifestyle debt, where your social pressure and comparison culture is kind of influencing your spending

[8:18] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): behaviour, and millennials kind of stand out. So that could be why that group are using Buy Now Pay Later, and they’re they’re feeling like they have to make these purchases, and short-term high interest borrowing is the is the solution to get that quick fix. Long term, it obviously carries some serious risks.

[8:39] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Oh my God. That is literally like me in a nutshell. Like that’s what happened to me at the start. You know, I it started small, ended up enormous just simply because I felt like I needed to keep up. And I’d never had the value of a pound installed into me. So debt was my only way of sort of looking like I was doing well, or or like being able to go to that party when I definitely couldn’t afford it, or you know, buying the new coat because somebody else in the team had bought a new coat, or upgrading to the Audi when you really couldn’t afford it. Um exactly. It’s just it’s everywhere. And social media is a massive factor in that that you know, we have this consumerism culture installed into us, and like eventually it breaks through. Like we did a video actually the other day, and

[9:24] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): um it was so 83% of my purchases on Amazon were directly influenced by a social media post or influencer.

[9:34] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): Wow.

[9:35] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): And so that’s 83% perhaps of things that I maybe wouldn’t have got. Of course, some of the things in there are pretty cool, like I’ve enjoyed you having them for sure, but like that’s a direct factor of social media having a much larger influences just on online purchases. God knows what that’s like on an actual day-to-day.

[9:52] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): The other thing about the millennial group is that, and I’m kind of at the older, older end of that group, so I need to try and be a bit more objective, but we we missed out on financial education in schools. So it was added to the national curriculum in 2014. So millennials are like the last group that got nothing in their secondary education, and one of the first groups where everything went digital. And we’ve got the contactless, we’ve got the buy now, pay later, it’s just so fast, it’s so easy if you’ve not done the groundwork to get your budget and know in your head what your limits are. It’s it’s very easy to yeah, for example.

[10:35] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): It’s also like life changes at that kind of age point, anyway, family situations, buying the houses, the cars, the the you know, perfect lifestyle. And the again going back into that whole like, and all of those things require debt.

[10:50] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah.

[10:50] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): And so you’re then adding to the pots of money that you’re having to put out, which increases the pressure on income.

[10:56] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah.

[10:57] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): And it’s very different for 18 to 24 because they don’t usually have those kind of responsibilities. So that plays quite a big factor as well.

[11:03] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah, I agree with you that that 20, 24 or 25 to 34, that you’re standing on your own two feet for the first time financially in a lot of cases. Some young adults, some 16, 17, 18-year-olds are financially self-sufficient, but the vast majority is still going to be supported by parents, whereas that next group up and older millennials have got kids as well, and all the costs that come with that, and yet they still want to be able to go on holiday because that’s what their friends do.

[11:33] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yeah. Yeah. They don’t they can’t cut back on things because somebody else is in front of them is doing it. I think like that kind of spend stems us sort of very well into sort of another point, which is like, what does it mean to actually be in control of your credit and how can people actually assess whether or not they are or not?

[12:34] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Being in control of your credit starts with budgeting because you need to be able to repay what you’ve borrowed. You need to understand what the interest is that you’re paying on what you’ve borrowed, what the time frame is for you to pay that back. And I think the the cost of living and the anxiety around debt has cast this shadow over borrowing. And that’s what the fear is really about, that it’s got all this negative association. But used correctly and used appropriately, if you can find the right credit products for you, they can make life easier. They can be really helpful. But staying in control, you need to consider how you’re gonna make repayments

[13:20] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): on a regular basis. So in your budget, you’ve got your essential outgoings, and then once those are covered, you’ve got a choice about what’s left. Are you gonna spend on the things you want? Are you gonna make more purchases or are you gonna try and clear the debt first? And it’s if you’re in a social group where everybody’s borrowing and everybody’s buying stuff all the time, it can be difficult to be the one that says, no, I’ve reached my limit and I’m I’m not gonna buy this round, or I’m not gonna go out to that night out because I’ve I’ve got these financial goals. Looking further ahead can really help you stay on track. If you’ve got ambitions to own your own house, that can really anchor

[14:06] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): you in your day-to-day decision making about borrowing.

[14:09] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yeah. It’s like what’s worth it for you. And actually, the exercise around financial goals is probably one of your most important, like having your really strong why. You mentioned the house. That’s what a lot of large people lot of people want to do is get on the ladder of your you know younger and uh and more increasingly older generation trying to get onto the ladder. But also, like once you’re on the ladder, what’s your next thing? And just having that anchored down can limit the amount of purchase things that you just like think that oh, I’m gonna do. Because it’s so easy. Like, you know, my mate over there has a credit card out, he has a credit card out, we’re all out. Um, why haven’t I? And like, oh, he’s doing it, or he’s got a great deal, so I should too. And it’s like that kind

[14:54] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): of like fitting in tribal most mentality, like you have to follow what everyone else is and around you, and often probably stepping out of that. You think that they’re going to judge you, but actually they’ll probably be after a while, they’ll probably be quite like like aspiration, you’ll be that you’d inspire them. Yeah, yeah. Just an odd way of thinking about it.

[15:15] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): It can be very difficult to be the person that says, come on, guys, enough’s enough. Like we don’t we don’t need to spend this. And finding your North Star, knowing where you’re trying to get to financially, can help you. But I think people are getting more comfortable having conversations with friends, with family, and as we’re coming up to Christmas, that’s something that’s really important for people to do.

[15:41] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yes, great segue into the next question. Because I was gonna say, like, obviously, this one’s coming out before Christmas, and people have probably done the majority of their Christmas shopping by the time that they’ve done this, we’ve we’d have gone past Black Friday, all of the big ones. But I think it’s still important to sort of set yourself expectations. And I see some crazy figures out there in terms of like how much household debt people take on just to get through this period. What’s some of your findings from a NerdWallet perspective?

[16:10] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Interestingly, three-quarters of people are not planning to get into debt this Christmas.

[16:16] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Well, that’s a big change.

[16:17] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah, it seems like people are really going into Christmas a lot more cautiously, they’re spending more mindfully. My family has changed what we’re doing. We’re doing a secret centre for the adults for the first time. So we’ll still buy presents for the children, my kids, my nieces, but the adults were just gonna do Secret Center. And I’ve spoken to a few people who’ve got the same idea. Secondhand gifting. I’m a massive believer, particularly for parents, where there’s pressure for your kid to have the latest thing and what’s Father Christmas gonna bring, that can cause a huge amount of financial stress for parents, particularly parents who might be on their own or they’re going through a separation. It just adds more stress uh into an already emotional situation.

[17:02] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): So secondhand gifting, whether that’s going on Vinted for clothes, eBay, I’ve lucky that where I live, there’s like a pre-loved boutique.

[17:12] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Oh, cool.

[17:12] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): So that’s yeah, that’s a nice way to get things that maybe if you’ve got somebody in your family is a bit attached to a particular brand, you can still deliver that without having to go with a massive off-the-shelf price tag.

[17:26] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): 100%. I yeah, me and my other half are like, we love a little charity shop. Yeah, we love it. Like we went in there say we’ve got a funeral tomorrow, and she picked up like a 300-pound French connection shoot. She got it for like 30 quid. And it’s amazing. We’ve done a little bit of tailoring on it for her, and it is she looks like the bee’s knees.

[17:43] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Awesome.

[17:43] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): And it’s like 50 quid for like a you know, a massive, like very expensive, nice labelled suit. And you would like it just took it actually took us less than half an hour to find something.

[17:52] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah, that’s that’s such a win. And when you think about what you can use the money you didn’t spend, exactly can use that money for, what that can go towards. Yeah.

[18:03] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): It’s the pressure around situations, and I think Christmas is a big one, but there are so many other like life things that happen, right? Like I just mentioned a funeral, like birthdays, you’re you know, I can’t wear that dress again. Uh I hear it all the time, like, you know, in my house. So renting or like looking at secondhand options to kind of like not spend £100 on something which you didn’t really want to or need to. And it goes for for blokes as well, of course, like many situations, like you know, you don’t have to have the beers and the food while you’re out at the football or whatever that might well be. I know I’m stereotyping a lot, and I do apologise, but the but it you know what I mean, right? It’s the occasions where we feel pressured to spend, and that’s often where debt comes into play.

[18:46] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Absolutely. The pressure for parents as well to create the magic of Christmas.

[18:52] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Oh, of course, yeah.

[18:54] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): But the somebody reminded me the other day of something really it sounds a bit cliched, but I think it’s so true that people remember how you make them feel, yes, not what gift you actually gave them. And that that applies for children as well. If you say, Well, what did Santa bring you when you were five? You weren’t gonna remember that. But you’ll remember the vibe of a happy family Christmas.

[19:18] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): I’m so happy you said that. I said this to someone the other day as well. I’m like, it’s not what you get, it’s like how remember because when you’re older, you’ll just you’ll be like, Oh, it’s really cool having everyone there that day. Like, and that’s all you’ll remember. You probably won’t remember that you got the latest Lego or whatever that might well be.

[19:34] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): And you’re giving your yourself a gift of a less painful January.

[19:40] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): Yeah.

[19:40] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): If you can if you can know what your limits are, if you can say, This is what I’m gonna be prepared to spend on Christmas, the presents, the decorations, the food, and stick to that limit. Oh, you’re gonna start the new year without that massive weight hanging over you. Yeah, how am I gonna pay all this off?

[20:01] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): I know, because it’s so savage because everyone gets paid like two, three days before Christmas.

[20:06] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah.

[20:06] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): And then there’s that whole period where there’s a lot going on, and that’s why people really feel it in January, especially if they’ve blown out.

[20:12] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): The payday thing is a really good point because you’ve got an artificially inflated bank balance. So you suddenly feel really flushed. Yeah. You’re like, I’ve worked really hard all year, I’m gonna let my hair down. The other thing when you go Christmas shopping is you’re like, well that’s for them, and that’s for them, and oh, I like that for me.

[20:30] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): I do that every year. Um period, I do that every single year. I’m like, one for you, one for you. And yes, that’s definitely something in it. And I I get it because you you know, you people do work hard and they want to actually reward themselves, and you know, that’s why you get the whole like oh, I’ve worked hard all week and you know, nice well, I deserve to use my money. But yes, the answers, of course you do, but in moderation, yeah. And like that’s why I just have really simple rules like if um if it’s a hundred pounds or more, can I afford it three times over in cash? And if the answer’s no, then I can’t afford it. And that’s a simple rule that I set myself. And also the second part of that is uh instead of like that’s really nice, I like that, that’s the present for me

[21:16] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): 24 hours later, do I still want it? Yeah, the answer 99% of the time is no. Yeah, and so that’s just my little like blocker now that I put in place with anything that’s like semi-expensive, and then I go a little bit further with the whole like rewards and gift cards and all of that. That’s why I get it down from 100 quid to 80 quid.

[21:35] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Just sleeping on it. Yeah. One of the things that I think people can make a massive shift in their spending behaviour, particularly if you’re somebody that tends to sit in bed late at night, scrolling on your phone and does sort of impulse purchasing, particularly if you’re clicking through from social media. First of all, you need to be really careful with scams, because if you’re clicking straight through from socials, it’s safer to actually come off that platform, go to the retailer’s website and try and find the deal there to check it’s legit. But if you see something you like and it’s like nine o’clock at night and you’re really tempted, like a couple of swipes of the thumb, it’s just too easy to buy it, buy an apple later, sleep on it instead. Save it in

[22:20] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): your basket or mark it as a favourite. In the cold light of day, you might feel quite differently about that purchase. You mentioned cash as well, and I think for Christmas shopping, that can be a really helpful way to help you stay on track. You’ve probably seen cash stuffing talked about quite a bit on socials. Yeah, it’s a big TikTok trend. So if people have got their envelope of this is what I’m spending on my mum, this is what I’m spending on my Auntie, etc. etc. That’s going to prevent something called spaving. Spaving. Come across spaving.

[22:52] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): No, this is new.

[22:53] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Spaving is a term that means spending more under the illusion that you’re saving. So let’s say you go into a store and you see something you were intending to buy and it’s it’s a three for two. And you’re like, oh, it’s really good value. I’m going to buy three of this thing instead of the one that I’d intended to buy. So yes, per item it might be a little bit cheaper, but they’re still spending more than you set out to spend. So if you’ve if you’ve allocated the money for that month and you go around taking up all these multi-buy offers, you’re going to run out of funds for something else. And that’s when you dip into your savings or you

[23:38] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): start borrowing. So it can be a good way of saving to buy in bulk or take advantage of these offers. But if you’re tight on cash and you need to stick to a budget, just buy the one thing that you went to get.

[23:54] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yeah. Yeah.

[23:55] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): And cash can help with that.

[23:56] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): So spaving. Okay. I like it. I’m into it. I like it a lot. The we’ve mentioned it a few times, I think, and I think it’s important to cover it because it’s such a massive factor now when it comes to debt. And that’s obviously buy now, pay later. And I went on Klarna’s website uh yesterday, sort of in preparation, and they’ve like over 10 million UK customers now, which is scary for me because I feel like they’re like just purely for access uh in a lot of ways. Like I’ve seen Deliveroo on there, I see like Pizza Express, seen Sainsbury’s, like that worries me when we’re kicking cans down the road. And you came across some really interesting data about where usage data differs between where

[24:41] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): you are in the country and their attitudes towards it. What did you find?

[24:46] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): So we looked at different regions in the UK, and there were a few that stood out for people using Buy Now Pay Later for unexpected costs and also withdrawing cash in order to then pay bills. So that would be for credit cards and taking cash out on a credit card. That’s like a real last resort because of the interest, the fees that’s going to kick in immediately. But with buy now, pay later, it seems that people are using that more frequently in London, in Scotland, and also in Northern Ireland.

[25:21] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): Really?

[25:22] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): And yeah, there you mentioned, I think, uh cities to would be interesting to compare. Actually, broader regions stood out more. So it gave me the idea because it’s like London, Scotland, Northern Ireland, we should have like a Four Nations podcast and just like understand where everybody’s coming from, because I don’t want to make any judgments about why that might be. An interesting stat from London is that they seem to be much more clued up about APR. So people in London are significantly more likely to know exactly what APR they’re paying on their credit card. Whereas across the country, only four in ten people, like, sorry, four

[26:07] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): in ten people have no idea what their APR is that they’re paying on their credit card.

[26:11] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yeah, Yonder did a study recently and it was higher across the UK as a whole. Um, because it is again such a like a, you know, when you start putting the fees and the perks and all of that into APR, it actually skews the amount of interest you’re actually paying realistically. So it’s a confusing thing for everyone, and I just think like there needs to be a bit more clarity around that. And so I really like that yonder study because you know it’s important that we just shine a light on these things. Yeah. But interesting around like I I I kind of see London as a country, really. It really is. It’s kind of the centre of the UK. And actually see, very interestingly, like the um obviously London’s like completely centred, really. That’s like the hub of the UK. As soon as you go outside of London,

[26:56] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): like life is very different. And even in the like surrounding home counties, it’s extremely different for a lot of different people. So I can see why, because it’s so centralized. And again, once you’re in the city, you’re like, let’s go out, let’s do this, let’s have this, let’s do that. And whereas where you’re in perhaps in more rural areas, there’s less pressure to compete on the latest X, Y, and Z because you’re actually out in your wellies walking the dog, like it doesn’t matter as much.

[27:25] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah.

[27:25] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): That’s the way I personally see it. Um, what do you think?

[27:29] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): I think you could be onto something there. I know that in London people seem to just be a little bit more aware. Maybe they’re exposed to more financial information, or maybe the cost of living in the capital means that they have to kind of level up their financial game in a way that cheaper parts of the UK don’t need to.

[27:54] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yeah, you’re totally right. We did a video recently as well, uh actually came out yesterday. It’s like the average rent in London is now £2,210 a month and the average salary £41,837. And that would be technically £83% of your income if you’re a single person. So no wonder there’s like an increase in credit if that’s what if you’re eight, if you’re £83% exposed to rent alone without bills, food, travel, anything else included, which it’s highly unlikely, obviously, you’re going to be moving out and bringing that cost down because you just wouldn’t be able to do it. But even so, even if at a 20% reduction there, that’s still vastly over the recommended of like 40% on your rent.

[28:34] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): I think the thing that needs looking at in more detail is the use of credit to pay for your essentials. So people that are putting their groceries and their fuel and those critical expenses on credit, are they doing it because they can’t make it to the end of the month? Or are they doing it deliberately because they want to earn the rewards? And potentially people in London might be a little bit more savvy to the benefits of using credit to their advantage in a way that people in other parts of the UK haven’t quite grasped yet.

[29:10] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): That’s a different spin on it. What do you think about credits and uh the rewards and perks with credit then? And how do we sort of get into that?

[29:17] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): I think there are a lot of products on the market, and people need to remember that they don’t have to be loyal to any particular provider.

[29:28] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): I’m so glad you said that.

[29:29] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): I know that when I’m using my mobile banking app, my current account provider is constantly marketing, borrowing products to me. And it’s very easy because you’re in the app just to click it and be like, oh yeah, I’ll I’ll take that. Actually, you need to shop around, you need to invest a little bit of time to work out what’s the kind of credit card that’s actually right for you and going to make your life easier. So, for example, if you’re somebody that travels a lot, then a credit card that offers air miles or points towards air miles is going to help you out.

[30:05] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): I do love my my my points.

[30:07] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah. Whereas if you’re to use a Christmassy example, if you want to do your big festive food shop at Sainsbury’s, then using a credit card throughout the year that helps towards your nectar points is massively gonna help with the cost of your Christmas shop. So a little bit of research, understanding what the perks are, and not taking up a deal if if you’re not really gonna use it. So uh a related example, I know that there’s a uh a current account at the moment that’s offering like a premium service and you get a free Greggs every week. Well, for some people who genuinely get their lunch at Greggs every week, that sounds awesome. That would be a money saver. But if you don’t, you don’t need to pay that premium.

[30:52] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yeah, no, that’s so true. Like it’s just about being a little bit smarter and taking the extra time, isn’t it? Because people think, oh, that sounds like a load of like I’d rather be scrolling on TikTok or doing other things, right? Or you know, watching Netflix or whatever that might well be. Uh again, I’m stereotyping, but the main reason of that is that that little five minutes of time just to put into it will be the could be the difference of hundreds of pounds, if not thousands, over the course of a year. So like we do that, like we actively move credit around onto different providers based on what we’re going through in terms of a season of that life or the perks that are available on that, and then we stack it with like gift card purchasing for

[31:38] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): um online and in store. And then it’s like suddenly, you know, 3% from the credit card, plus 3% from the gift card, plus an extra 5% from top cash back. And it’s like, well, I just got 10% off that. And like, you know, if you can, you can find another discount coupon code and put that in as well. And then, you know, 10 what started as 3% has now ended up at sort of 15%.

[32:01] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah. And those small percentages add up. I think sometimes people feel like, oh, it’s not really worth the effort. But it’s when you add all the little bits together and you consistently do it over time, then as you say, it can be hundreds, it can be thousands.

[32:18] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Well, we did it, uh, we added it up, did a video on it recently, £1,200 this year from simple savings like that. And in those situations, that is Christmas completely covered, or it is a holiday, or it is both, you know, and depending on, you know, the size of your family and your commitments and things like that. So it’s just those moments with credit and using it to your advantage that can actually really sort of level up your finances in a lot of ways, as long as you’re paying it downright and keeping within your like your utilizations.

[32:50] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): The other thing with credit is that just because you’re offered a certain amount of credit, if you get uh an email or some other marketing message saying, you you’ve been approved for this working great loan, doesn’t matter. You don’t have to take that full amount. Yeah. And if you find it easier to stick to a limit, and this would apply to a credit card or an overdraft, you set the limit. You’re in charge. That’s how you put that boundary there, not what the bank says you’re eligible for. It’s a bit like you said with mortgages, yes, you might get approved for a certain amount, and the lender will stress test you, but stress test yourself as well. Go through your budget and work out okay, if if this

[33:35] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): happened, if that happened, keep that little bit of bandwidth, that flexibility, so that you’re not gonna have an absolute nightmare.

[33:44] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): You’re totally right. You’re totally right. I want to sort of move this on to uh another part of this conversation because I know you’ve got some fantastic uh insights into this. And it’s it’s particularly around women and and how underrepresented that they can be in certain financial conversations. And we’ve touched on it there a little bit in terms of like single parents and the pressures that they might feel in these types of situations. And I feel like how do we kind of make women a little bit more financially empowered and like even in the family situation or from a single parent income?

[34:17] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah. Historically and traditionally, men have been the ones to manage money. It’s changing. Interestingly, I read a statistic this week that the number of joint accounts is dropping. So I think there’s like a bit of a 14% reduction in the number of joint accounts from 2022 to 2024. So relationships now, people are seeing financial independence as very important.

[34:46] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): That’s really interesting.

[34:47] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah. And Stylist magazine did some research into women’s goals over the next couple of years, and financial independence again stood out not as a status symbol to be financially independent, but just for their own sense of self-confidence. It needs to be a partnership. And one of the reasons I feel really strongly about this is because women who are in a relationship where the money is controlled by the

[36:38] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): man, if they then end up on their own, they’re really behind the curve in learning how to manage money. There’s a very steep learning curve. As a single parent, you don’t have a choice. You have to learn fast how to do it all yourself. And feeling empowered and feeling like you have a voice as to what happens to money in a relationship is so important. Whether you are a dual income household or a single income household, if you’re a woman who’s stopped work or reduced your hours or taken a career break to have children and you don’t have as much income anymore, that you shouldn’t lose your right to have a say in what happens to money.

[37:23] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): I I I completely agree. Like we’re open and honest about that type of conversation. And should um we ever have kids, then like there would need to be that open and honest approach to the finances. And I feel like if you approach it like that, then it doesn’t become a massive problem later down the line because it’s been constantly spoken about, communicating, and and throughout that period, and should for whatever reason happen and we ever separated or something along those lines, it’s been made pretty clear the entire time. So, you know, and I think Charlotte’s quite lucky that she has a financial educator as her other half because I’m just slowly brushing her up and she’s now having those types of conversations with her friends, which is awesome. Yeah. Um, but I think you know, that’s not always the case.

[38:08] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): And I see it a lot in um, you know, divorcees and people that come to the workshops a lot of the time. A lot of our audiences like women that have like, I need to learn now, um, because I haven’t had that afforded to me.

[38:24] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah.

[38:25] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): I’ve put the trust in the gentleman to manage the money. He’s either gone tits up and it’s not working, or he’s made terrible financial decisions on their behalf, and they are now going through a period where they now have to seize control and it’s in a really short space of time. And then if you factor on top of that, like the gender pension gap, the gender investment gap, and even the gender salary in a lot of ways, it’s just like quite stark, odd way of like how these women have to then suddenly just pick it all up and start learning.

[38:59] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): It’s frustrating that that gap hasn’t been closed faster.

[39:04] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): It’s getting worse.

[39:05] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): And it feels like uh rather than just a gender gap, a motherhood penalty. And I would love it if women felt able to take more of an interest. I think with financial education, you kind of can’t force it on people if they’re not ready. To some extent. Absolutely. We get engaged with money when it’s our time. It’s very difficult to get excited about it. And obviously, at NerdWallet, we are literally nerdy about all the details of money, but it’s really hard to if you’ve not got the money bug,

[39:50] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): it’s really hard. So you just need it to be as simple and clear as possible. But if you have left a relationship and you’re finding all of a sudden you’re paying utility bills, you’re paying the rent, you’ve got childcare to sort out, you’ve got to put food on the table, you’ve got no one helping. Yeah, help is out there, and you can look online, there’s lots of charities that can support you. And single parents can talk to one another.

[40:15] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): Yeah.

[40:16] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): If if in in relationship, one of the things I love to do, a bit like uh Brian from Money Box was saying, invest 30 minutes a week to work on your finances. Me and my partner go on a money date.

[40:28] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): Yeah, so we we do the same.

[40:30] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): We’ll like take our laptops, get our spreadsheets out, have a nice little coffee and a piece of cake, and do a bit of monthly budgeting and planning together. Nice. And that’s a way of easing yourself into looking at your finances on a regular basis. If it’s something you’ve been avoiding, like, oh, I don’t want to look, then pair it up with something that you do want to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do it together.

[41:02] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): In a nutshell. Um, I think like this is obviously a big part of the conversation in terms of like couples’ finances, but I think one of the sort of big costs at the moment has actually I get it possibly in every single video that I do. If I make a budgeting video, if I make an investing video, if I make a you know, how to increase your income video every single time childcare comes up. And they always go, You don’t understand you don’t understand what it’s like to have two kids. And I’m like, no, I do, but I I can’t include it because of the varying costs that are associated to that. Some families have one kid, two kids, three kids. So

[41:47] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): it’s impossible for me to create a universal like budgeting framework that works for you. And I think the kind of stigma around the benefits uh can be pretty challenging for people. And I would love to know what you think about this at the moment. And there’s obviously been changes recently and how that actually works.

[42:05] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah. So if we start with child benefit, that desperately needs a rebrand because just the fact that it’s called a benefit puts people off claiming it. Yeah. People that are not on any other kind of financial support, they see the word benefit and they think, oh, that’s not for me. That’s for people who are much worse off than me. Child benefit is for everybody who has a child, it’s there to help you do the best job that you can do as a parent because the government recognises that children are expensive. So that’s the first thing. It is worth claiming that money. And the rates have gone up this year. So for one child, £25.60 per week. Yeah, it doesn’t sound like lows, but actually

[42:50] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): over a year, that’s £1,300 for a child. And if you put that towards school uniforms and wrap around care, yeah, it can ri be really worth having. If somebody put 1,300 quid on your kitchen table, you take it. And yet two over 200,000 eligible parents are not claiming child benefit. The money is there for the taking, and they, for whatever reason, they’re not taking that money.

[43:21] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): So Keir must be licking his lips for that £22 billion black hole, right? Yes.

[43:26] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Let’s let’s see what happens next with the black hole. But yeah, the for if you’ve got two children, that if you’re eligible for the maximum amount, that’s £2,200 a year. For three children, look at three grand a year. And one of the reasons people think that, oh, it’s not really worth claiming is because there are these limits to your earnings. And they’ve been moved up recently. So the limit was £50,000, was when you started to pay back your child benefit in tax. And that limit’s been there since 2013. And had it moved with inflation, had it increased at the rate that wages and everything else has had increased,

[44:12] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): it would be more like 68,000 where that you start paying tax. Actually, it’s at 60. So it’s it’s a jump up, but it’s still not quite keeping pace with inflation.

[44:21] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): Yes.

[44:22] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): So you’ve now got this situation where if you’re running between 60 and 80 grand, you’re going to have to pay some of that benefit back in tax. And it’s really down to you and your partner if you have one to work out whether how you value your time, because it does involve a little bit of form filling, a little bit of admin. If you’re self-employed, you’ll declare your child benefit on your tax return, on your self-assessment. If you are not currently doing a self-assessment and you want to claim this child benefit, then you’ll have to start doing a self-assessment. And that’s another thing that people can be a little bit scared, scared about and think, oh, I’m just not going to go near it.

[45:01] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): What’s some good ways that they can? Is that like in terms of doing a self-assessment then?

[45:06] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): There’s not really a shortcut. However, in my experience, every single year, it feels like less of a big deal. It gets easier each time you do it.

[45:16] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Do you do your own?

[45:17] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Really? So if you’ve if you’ve ever had a side hustle that’s earning more than a thousand pounds, then you’re going to need to declare that and pay some tax. And so there will be a lot of people who, for this year, particularly with the law changing around income made on selling things on Etsy and eBay and stuff like that, will be staring down the barrel of their first ever self-assessment. And they’re terrified. And it feels really scary the first time. But I promise you, next year it will not be so scary. It’s gonna be okay. Like step by step, you don’t have to do it all in one go. And guess what? There’s a new

[45:52] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): YouTube tutorial telling you how to do it.

[45:56] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah.

[45:57] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): But I think there’s that kind of like thing about childcare at the moment, and because you can get obviously the contribution in hours as well.

[46:05] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah.

[46:05] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): That’s gone up.

[46:06] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah.

[46:07] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): And that’s a big change for people.

[46:09] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah.

[46:10] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): But again, I don’t think people have realised that as well.

[46:13] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): And yeah, the childcare funding, it’s a really big deal that there’s now funded hours available for working parents of children who are as young as nine months old. So if you’re working, I think it’s a minimum of uh £183 a week that you need to earn, you can get 15 hours of funding towards your childcare costs. Now, the average nursery fees for an under two-year-old, if they were in full-time nursery, that would be 15 grand a year. If they were in part-time nursery under two, you’re looking at still eight grand a year on average.

[46:50] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): Wow.

[46:51] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): They’re really big numbers. So to take these funded hours is really, really worth doing. And it depends where we are in the country. The nursery sector, the childcare sector is very overstretched. Unfortunately, they’re very reliant on government funding and they’re not really getting enough. And different nurseries, different childcare providers are going to need to ask parents to top up the funding that they get from the government to cover food and nappies and whatever else. So again, it’s something where you have to do a bit of shopping around to work out what’s the right setting for your child, but also what fits your budget. But on top of the funding, you’ve got tax-free childcare.

[47:36] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): And this is a brilliant system. This is for anybody that earns less than 100 grand a year, you can get a 20% top-up from the government. So you can pay into your child, your tax-free childcare account. Say you put eight pounds into it, the government would make that up to £10, and you use that money to pay the nursery or the preschool for your child.

[47:58] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Kind of similar to a pension in a lot of ways. Yeah. That’s that’s brilliant. I think that’s so important. And just understanding that for people, obviously, like it doesn’t take off the £15,000 and £8,000 kind of fees, but it does bring it down a considerable amount.

[48:13] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah, and it’s a deal breaker for mums who still typically are the ones that have to sacrifice their career when they have children. The funding and the support with childcare costs is the thing that enables them to go back to work.

[48:29] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yes, it does. And but even with that, I’ve seen many calculations on social media where actually they have decided it doesn’t. And so this then fuels that whole women in finance conversation with the gender pension gap, the gender investment gap, because there’s no income coming into their pockets. So then they are solely reliant on a you know a single earning husband or or significant other half.

[48:56] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Absolutely.

[48:56] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): And so that’s like I don’t think we’re there yet. And I think like we’ve got a little bit of a long way to go with childcare to try and get us up to the levels of support that are required to even just from like a society perspective rather than a gender perspective. What do you think about that?

[49:13] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah, definitely. And we touched earlier on the comparison culture that’s rife at the moment. I catch myself now thinking, where am I in my career? And if I’d been a man and I’d not had five years raising toddlers, where would I be now? And yeah, it’s difficult to reconcile the amazing gift of being a mum and having the opportunity to take time out of work, to play with little people and give them the best possible start in life with the disadvantage that women face by doing that.

[49:51] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yeah, 100%. 100%. I think obviously like building family stability and long-term stability comes into sort of my next point, really, around sort of savings and how people can like effectively look at like long-term financial stability and some of the techniques that they can use. I know you’re a big fan of these.

[50:11] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah.

[50:12] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): What’s some of your techniques here?

[50:14] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): I think Roundups is the single biggest invention in personal finance for a while.

[50:20] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): Yeah.

[50:21] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Because it gets around the problem of uh feeling like, oh, there’s no point. If I haven’t got 50 quid, if I haven’t got 100 quid, there’s no point even trying to save. Saving with Roundups, and you can save into uh a stocks and shares ISA, even as a way into investing, you literally don’t notice those few pence off each pound going in. And for somebody that feels like they can’t save, it creates this little feedback loop of oh, turns out I did save that amount last month. Check me out. Oh, and it’s made some interest. I’m gonna I’m gonna keep doing this, I’m gonna round up a few

[51:06] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): more. Yeah, I think that’s that’s if you can do that as your starting point for saving, and you can do that as an individual or as a couple couple, so you can round up every transaction on a joint account card, and then when you’re both out there spending, like tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, each, each few pence that goes into that pot, that could be towards your Christmas shop.

[51:28] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): We do it for a holiday and it earns monthly interest as well, and it’s just so nice to see it go up. And it’s actually weird how much goes in there. Yeah, like you just don’t even really consider it. It’s that old like throw the money in the jar when you get in the chain, loose chains used to go in the pot.

[51:42] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): The digital version.

[51:43] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): It is the digital version, isn’t it? And it’s just such a nice way, but uh, that money pot at home never grew, whereas this digital version does, which is such a nice, like nicer way of looking at it. And you’re right, like it can just go in a savings pot, but it can go in a stocks and share size. Uh and you know, you could we even withdraw that and put it in your pension if you wanted to. Like, there’s so many options for you with it, you don’t have to spend it. And I just think it’s such a nice thing to do.

[52:07] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah. Something that my my dad, when I was younger, tr always tried to drill into me was your money needs to be beating inflation. And at the time I just thought I couldn’t get I couldn’t get my head around what he meant. Like it didn’t, it I kind of knew sort of what inflation was, but I couldn’t quite work out how it affected me and my money. It just didn’t stick. And that’s something that I’m really keen to help people understand. I I talk about CPI, so the consumer price index. We had some data out this week, it’s gone back up to 2.3%. That’s gonna really knock consumer sentiment this holiday season when people are out shopping. But beating inflation simply means that your money isn’t sitting somewhere

[52:53] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): like in a jar where it’s being devalued as prices rise. If you’ve got it in a savings account with an interest rate that’s higher than the rate of inflation, then your quid’s in.

[53:05] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): You are, you are, and it’s so easy to work out. Like you just literally go, okay, I’m getting 5%, inflation’s at 2.3%. Okay, my value growth right now at this time of recording is 2.7%, for example. So I’m actually increasing it, my money by 2.7%. Okay, that’s good. But is it good really? Then that’s another argument for a different day. We won’t go into that on this one, but for me, you know, like, you know, looking at investing in your pensions alongside of it is kind of the way to perhaps accelerate that even further. Because that 2.7% is not gonna you’re not gonna be retiring soon on that kind of increase, in my opinion. So um obviously strategies I want to sort of touch

[53:50] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): on, and we touched on roundups, and you know, there are some people that perhaps struggle to build savings at the moment, it’s pretty tough. You know, we’ve seen the childcare conversation come into the mix, you know. That’s a a good handful of millions of parents out there um hopefully listening to this. Um, but obviously there’s lots of other people that they’re probably listening to this going, Sammie. You know, I’ve I’ve I’ve only got like 30 quid when I get to the end of the month. Like, what do I do in this situation? What’s your kind of uh view on that?

[54:20] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah. If you’ve got 30 quid left and that’s all you’ve got at the end of the month, first of all, well done because you’re still in the black. Like it’s better to have 30 quid left than to be in the negative and have had to dip into savings if you’ve got any or put that on borrowing. So take that as a win, first of all. If it’s 30 quid and you want to do something with it, then I think you don’t have to put it all in one pot, would be the first message. You could split that up. You could say, right, I’ve got a short-term money goal, I’ve got a medium-term money goal and a long-term money goal, and I’m gonna pop 10 pounds in each pot. Nice. And one could be just an e-savings, a simple e-savings pot that’s attached to your current account, or it could be in a in a pot, if you’re

[55:05] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): using a challenger bank like Monzo or Starling or Chase, you’ve got pots within your current account, you could stick it in there, it’s easy access. If you have a sort of medium-term goal, so let’s say a holiday in six months’ time, if you can find uh an easy access or even a fixed access saver that you can take it out within the time frame you’re gonna want it, you could pop it in there, it’s gonna get a little bit more growth. And then for longer term goals, a either an ISA or depending where you are in your career, because pension savings should be a priority for everybody. Yes, the caveat to that is that money you put into your pension, you cannot get out again. No. So for people that are sort of quite early on

[55:50] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): in their saving journey, you just need to be cautious. If you’ve not got an emergency fund available to you, I’d be really cautious about throwing extra cash into your pension before you’ve built up that buffer, should you, you know, curb your time and have to go and get a new one.

[56:12] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yes. Like I think emergency funds are the most underrated thing when it comes to personal finance, in my opinion, because mm-hmm I speak to never even think about it and they just want to jump into like, oh, what’s the latest like cryptocurrency that I can buy in X, Y, and Z? And they just forget about the security safety net, and it’s the like number one thing we get everybody to do. And then once you’ve done that, it’s like the weight off these people’s shoulders is just nuts.

[56:38] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): It’s really healthy for your peace of mind.

[56:42] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): I think more from the mental health perspective rather than a financial perspective. It’s just that pure like I am safe.

[56:48] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah. And the thing about putting your emergency fund into something that is easy access. So you you want a small emergency fund that’s instant access, that literally, if something happened today, you could get that money out. But let’s say you were building up an emergency fund in case you lost your job. For most people, you’re not going to need that money the same day or the next day. So you you would hope that you’d have a few weeks’ notice to get yourself together if you were to suddenly lose your job. And if you’re able to put that then into an easy access with a little bit higher interest rate, and you think, oh, well, I’m I’m supposed to have three to six months worth of salary saved in case I lost

[57:33] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): my job. Put in what you can. Don’t let it be an all or nothing thing. If you can’t get the three to six months worth, just put in what you can because it will start to grow.

[57:44] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): 100%.

[57:45] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): And hopefully, if you hang on to your job, that’s gonna build up for you without you having to make huge sacrifices.

[57:52] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yeah, I completely agree. We we say to people like just start with the first hundred quid and then do 500, then do a thousand and break it right down into even five, sometimes even ten steps that you can just continually hit because those positive reinforcements and those loops that you create will last you a lifetime.

[58:10] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): But even smaller amounts, I would say don’t make hundred pounds the starting point. Start with the with the with the 30 quids that we were talking about, you’ve got left at the end of the month. Stick that in there.

[58:21] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Whatever you can afford. Like it’s got to be personal fans is personal, and that’s what we say to people as well. Like, you’d line up a million people with four on 40 grand, none of you are gonna have the same budget. Never, it’s not gonna happen. So, like you have to treat it in that way. So, what we say, you don’t take that as like carbon gospel, you just readapt it to fit your lifestyle, and I think that’s really important because there is no one size fits all for this, but there are little tips and tricks and unique things that you can bring into play, but you just reflect them based on your life, and I think that’s really important. Um now I want to just move this on to like other ways because obviously, if someone is struggling, then a potential thing for them is is side hustles and you have started four businesses, with one of them becoming

[59:06] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): a little successful income generator for you, yeah. Um and another you’re still running as a side hustle.

[59:12] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah, I think I’ve always had a bit of an entrepreneurial streak, and probably the same. Uh people that have business ideas will know that you can kind of have a go at something, and it doesn’t quite scratch the itch, and you need to go and try something else. And every every business that I’ve started, I’ve learned something really helpful along the way. And for me, the the income generating business was a side hustle that I created because I really needed extra income. It was a time in my life where I was a single mum, so I had a full-time job, but I was I had financial goals and I really wanted a little bit of extra cash. So I set up a communications

[59:58] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): agency alongside my day job, and I was supporting small businesses with digital marketing, social media, communication strategy and PR. And it meant working a lot of evenings and weekends, but it was a really nice way to top up my income. And it was great for my self-confidence at that time in my life as well.

[60:20] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yeah, and I love that because you just like you’re utilizing time and using it as a positive thing to do, and you’re actually utilizing skills perhaps you, you know, you knew that you already had or that you were happy to like very quickly upskill on certain areas.

[60:33] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): Yeah.

[60:34] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): And you know, that’s what when I was going through my debt journey, like freelancing alongside for businesses, like almost like a mini agency in itself as well, was was like my actually ended up being like over 50% of the contributions to get rid of that £24,000 of debt because it just like it does actually bring in like really good money if you’re putting yourself out there and providing services. And as long as those companies are fine with you working whenever, because as long as you deliver, yeah, it doesn’t necessarily matter, right?

[61:02] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah.

[61:02] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): I love that for you. And your other one.

[61:04] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yes. So the side hustle that I still have ticking over in the pandemic, I wrote a children’s book, and this was something that I’d always wanted to do. I knew that I had a story inside me and I wanted to share it with the world. And COVID and lockdown just created this perfect opportunity where I got furloughed for my job at the time in a university, and I had this time to actually produce this book. And I actually got a life coach at the time just to hold me accountable because I knew that I was very unlikely to get this opportunity again. And I was like, I really want to do this, I want to take this passion and this skill and turn it into a product, and

[61:50] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): actually monetizing it was almost secondary to that. But it’s been amazing to create this passive income stream. And I’ve posted books out all over the world: Australia, the Netherlands. It’s so lovely. And I went down the self-publishing route. So I didn’t ask you. I didn’t spend huge amounts of money. I had a friend illustrate the story for me.

[62:15] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): Oh, lovely.

[62:16] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): And yeah, it’s it’s on Etsy. And it’s yeah, like I posted one yesterday. It’s just nice to keep that little passive income stream that you can dial up and dial down. And if you’ve got something, uh a passion, a hobby, a skill that you can monetise, yeah. It’s there for you in times of financial need, and you can kind of increase the amount of time that you put into it according to how much extra income you need.

[62:43] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Obviously, you’ve been through this as a single parent. Like you juggled parenting, full-time job, and side hustle. So it’s possible.

[62:52] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): It is possible. I didn’t have a TV for a year, so I I didn’t do I didn’t do some of the things that are people would think of as like normal life. I was very workaholic for that for that period, and I don’t think it’s something that’s sustainable for a long period of time.

[63:12] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): Seasons.

[63:13] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Exactly. Yeah. Having said that, I have interviewed a couple of ladies this week who are running very successful Etsy shops alongside a full-time job, and they are they’re like massive sales, they’re doing the marketing, they’re doing the paid advertising. It’s a full-on second career for them.

[63:33] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yeah.

[63:33] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): And I think side hustles have that potential. I know people who started side hustling and then they’ve gradually transitioned. So they’ve got a full-time job and then they’re going down to four days a week so that they’ve got a day for their sidewalk. And you just gradually move it across. And that’s a really safe way to make the transition to self-employment without putting yourself in a vulnerable situation financially.

[64:00] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): 100%. And I love you said that. Yes, exactly what we did for Up The Gains. We scaled down, ended up selling my shares in the business, and just like went for it when it was ready. And like that didn’t put that kind of pressure of like in January, I’m leaving, and this business must work. Because then you make really, really bad decisions. And so, like, having that little buffer point. But what I love about what you said there is the possibilities of like making money online selling products. That’s not something we’ve covered a lot on here. And you mentioned Etsy, it is quite buzzworty out there, and I think having done tests on this myself with multiple stores and just to see how difficult it actually is, it isn’t easy. And I think YouTube and

[64:45] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): social media will have you feel like it is, like buy my XE course, you know. And I think that there’s a trap there and a touch, like to get to those levels, you have to be very good, and you also have to find like the right product to fit within that market because it is getting vastly saturated quite quickly, especially with digital products on there. A lot of people have already thought of the things that you might have thought of, and there’ll be 30 versions, and it becomes like a price war.

[65:11] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): Yeah.

[65:11] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Um, in your opinion, like, is it still the best out there, or is there other ones out that on there that you think people should look at?

[65:19] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): It is a matter of opinion. Etsy holds this reputation for being the go-to place for handmade and personalized and craft. So it’s really about what your product is, your business values, because eBay or Amazon might be where your customers are looking for whatever it is that you’re selling. So understanding your audience, you’re right about it being quite difficult in terms of learning SEO. But as you say, there are courses online and some great ones, by the way.

[65:51] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): I will say that as uh it’s another thing that if you if you you you get out what you put in.

[65:58] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): So if you invest the time to upskill yourself, uh so it yeah, for people that are really keen to turn into more of a moneymaker, it probably is worth investing that time to to learn about SEO and do some experimentation. So one of the earlier business ventures that I started was a bakery. So I was, yeah, I was making uh cakes and what kind? Uh so mostly celebration cakes, like wedding cakes, christening cakes, birthday cakes. Brilliant. And the the gap in the market I was going for, and this was this was back years ago when I was sort of 24, 25, um, was for dietary requirements. Because back then the gluten-free and the dairy-free were not as widely available as they are now.

[66:43] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): And yeah, that was that I did a whole load of experimentation to find out whether people would buy my products if I partnered up with uh local business delivering groceries. Do they want some muffins in there, for example? And that business did not turn out to be particularly successful, but I learned a huge amount on the financial aspect of running that business. But probably the most important thing was learning that I don’t work well on my own in the kitchen all day, every day. And I need to be around other people. So I think that’s something that until you until you try it, until you give uh a business a try, you you learn about yourself as you go through that process of experimenting

[67:28] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): with products and who your market is and where’s the best place to position your brand?

[67:33] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): 100%. Like, start with a time evaluation. Usually look at your phone screen time as the starting. This is what we say to everyone when before they get started on any of our programs. It’s like, do a time evaluation. Okay, this is what a current week looks like for me. I’m not really happy with that. How do I find three to four hours? Maybe eat upwards of 10 hours. We try and get them to get to 10 hours. Like if you really want to start a side hustle business, usually 10 hours is kind of the good benchmark period where you can do some damage. And that quickly adds up. You know, it’s a full working week over a month. So that’s a that’s a you know a lot of a lot of weeks of the year. I can’t do the maths right now off the top of my head. Um, but it makes a massive difference. And then that’s your starting block to then go

[68:18] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): out and actually try something with the pressure’s not necessarily there because you have your nine to five in place and you can experiment, you can make mistakes, you can try the bakery business, and if it works, fantastic. If it doesn’t, it’s not been the end of the world. Or you can hopefully land on something that you really enjoy doing and you can double down and become the best at it. And I think if you have that mindset, it really sets you apart when it comes to side hustles.

[68:43] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): Yeah.

[68:43] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): But not everybody does. And that’s usually because they kind of um miss well, I can’t think of the word, but basically they think that it’s gonna take them a lot less time and a lot less effort than it actually does. Yeah. But when it comes to business, it’s not easy, and you do get out what you put in.

[69:00] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah. And that’s why it’s so important to find something that you give a shit about.

[69:06] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): Yeah.

[69:06] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Like if you’re gonna put all that time in, yeah, it has to be something you care about because that’s what’s gonna drive you at the end of a working day, right? I’m gonna put my other hat on, I’m gonna start my other job now.

[69:19] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): I do like we do it guy with everybody. So it’s so powerful. What’s your purpose? Like, what do you really love? What are you good at? What does it actually the world need? And what you know, what can you be paid for? You bring it all together, and that’s your business right there. And if you can get that right, you uh will never work a day again. Nothing will be work. Obviously, yes, there’ll be little tough times and tough periods that you go through, and you’re gonna have to learn a load, of course, but your North Star, back to that, same with your finances, is exactly the same for your business as well. If you get that dialed in, I personally think so.

[69:53] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): I would say though, we go through seasons of our lives. So your passion may change. Oh, yeah. And so having two, three, four, however many businesses over the course of your life, there should yeah, that should be acceptable.

[70:10] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yeah, and it should be, yeah, totally. I think probably in 10 years’ time, if you ask me what type of business that I asked, would it be a personal finance education business? Probably not. But who knows where we would be by that point. Yeah. And that’s totally fine too, you know. And and you know, I’ve started so many side hustle businesses over the years, possibly in the 20s now. And some of them still going, some of them are not, and I’m totally cool with that. And I’ve learned so much. So when I actually did go and do the big one, I was ready. And like I’d made every mistake in the book before. So it set me up for the one that actually mattered. But if you’d I if I’d have just started the one that actually mattered without doing any of that, I guarantee you I wouldn’t be sitting here today.

[70:52] Sammie Ellard-King (Host, backchannel): Yeah.

[70:52] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): So it’s uh it is one of those things. Try it and see how it works, you know. What have you got to lose? I suppose is the big thing in that. And if you love it, then isn’t that what’s uh why we’re here as people, I think.

[71:03] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Yeah.

[71:04] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yeah. I’ve loved this chat. Uh I know we didn’t I’ve had loads more questions for you, but I I I feel like we could chat about this all day. So we’re gonna have to do a part two. Um, but yeah, Amy, is there any sort of parting things that we’ve missed out on? Any massive things that you think that from the sort of side hustle conversation that I’ve just missed off?

[71:22] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): I think we’ve covered most of it. I’m gonna just hark back to what we were saying earlier about self-assessment because I don’t want that to be the reason why somebody says, oh no, side hustle, I don’t think I’m gonna bother. I’m I’m just gonna keep making this amazing jewelry for my friends and family. I’m not gonna try and sell it because I’ll then I’ll have to pay tax, I’ll have to do a self-assessment. Don’t let that be the reason.

[71:45] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): How long does it take you, roughly?

[71:47] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): Well, it depends on the kind of complexity of your business, whether you’re just selling a few, whether you’re selling across multiple platforms. So it’s hard to put a time on it. You can pay somebody to help you with it. There are, you know, one-off fees you can pay to accountancy firm to hold your hand through the self-assessment, and that might be worth it for somebody if they’re doing it for the first time. But you should definitely not let that be the reason that deters you from monetizing something that you’re creating or producing or delivering that you love doing.

[72:26] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Yeah, 100%. 100%. Um, I’ve loved this. It’s been really good fun. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. Um, where can people find you?

[72:34] Amy Knight (Guest, NerdWallet UK): You can find me at nerdwallet.com forward slash uk. And you can follow me on X and LinkedIn to keep an eye on what I’m up to.

[72:45] Sammie Ellard-King (Host): Brilliant. We’ll leave those in the show notes and Amy, it’s been a real pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I loved that chat with Amy Knight from NerdWallet. One of the things that I thought was really cool and we resonated with as well, because I do it as well, is having those money dates and having conversations with your partner about your finances. Honestly, it is unrivaled. But guys, if you are not subscribed, hit that subscribe button. And if you’re listening on Apple or Spotify, please do leave us a five star review if you like the show, because it really does help us grow more than you know. But guys, we’ll see you next Wednesday. It’s been a real pleasure. Catch you on the next one.