Sammie Ellard-King’s £24,000 Debt Story: Episode 150 of Up The Gains

This transcript is auto-generated and lightly edited for readability, it may contain errors.

[0:00] Adam and Sammie: So welcome back to the Money Games podcast. And today we’re going to be doing something a little bit differently. We’re going to be flipping this around because it’s been highly requested. And I’ve never really told my story on the podcast before. And equally as well, we have something absolutely incredible and very exciting coming up. So I’ve got my really good friend and absolute legend, studio owner and host of the Trying to Adult podcast, Mr. Adam Williams. Welcome, man. How are you doing? Yeah, good, Sammie. Thanks for having me on. Mate, it’s good. Like, we’ve been meaning to do this for some time, haven’t we? We haven’t been, mate. And I’m quite excited to help you share your story today as well. Thank you. Yeah, I’m looking forward to it. Like, it’s weird being like the other way around. Yeah, it feels weird for me too.

[0:48] Adam and Sammie: So where should we start? So I think that a lot of your listeners would have spent a lot of time listening to your podcast. They would have got some really good information from you. Maybe it’s helping them with their kind of financial situation at the moment but perhaps they’re thinking I don’t really know the real Sammie I don’t know the purpose behind why you’re running the podcast why you’ve got this new exciting thing that we’ll talk about in a second so why don’t we go back to the beginning and really work out like where did this story start for you yeah it’s so funny like if you asked people I think probably even like five years ago which is when we started Up The Gains like would you see Sammie doing financial education content like ever and everyone would have laughed you out the room because I was a completely different person.

[1:33] Adam and Sammie: What were you like as like a teenager? Yeah. Like late teens. What sort of crowd were you? You know, at schools, you had different crowds at school. Oh, yeah. Which crowd were you in? I was like, I started as, you remember like, you had like Grebos and Townies. I know Townies, but what was Grebos? Grebos are like the grungers, the rockers.

[1:50] Adam: Okay,

[1:51] Adam and Sammie: yeah. So I started as the grungers. So they call where I saw Grebos. Like, I started as a grebo or a grunge rocker and then like slowly went into like Nike gear and shot jackets and all of that jazz. But I think as a team, like I was quite lost. I went to, um, I was privately educated and up to the age of 11 and then I got dropped into, uh, not dropped into like a state school standard secondary school, but that kind of culture clash for me was like quite big. And equally as well, I had like, cause I had such an amazing education when I was younger, I found it really difficult to fit in until probably like year 10, year 11. What made it difficult to fit in? I spoke differently. I was leaps and bounds ahead academically.

[2:39] Sammie: Not because like, it was just because of the brilliant education I’d got. And so that was a real challenge. And obviously when you speak different, you look different. Like I turned up on day one where you had to wear your old school uniform and a cap and a blazer with a tie. And the other kids had like jumpers and shorts on. It’s a big difference, right? And obviously you’re very clearly that guy straight away. And obviously I was, hello, good afternoon, grandfather. And you know, that, that, that was a big sort of culture clash for me. Um, but actually what it has done is it show me now when I look back here, um, I’ve seen it all, you know, I’ve got friends who grew up in council States. I’ve got friends that live in multi million pound mansions and their dads are billionaires. So I’ve seen it all.

[3:26] Adam and Sammie: And so it’s given me a really like wide view of the world and that I would change for anything. Um, you know, but I, when you’re 11, 12, 13, what you want to do is fit in. And I found that really tough. Um, but luckily, you know, uh, I’ve got a good gift of the gab and so I could give it as much as I could take it. Yeah. So after school, um, uh, you’ve, I’m assuming gone to like university then? Yeah. So I dropped out of A-levels. I went into college, um, and I was a massive music head. So I, I used to make beats and, uh, we had a studio and my house so all of the local like rappers and singers used to come around and I used to record them and that was like my sort of foray into sort of like learning about building a brand because you’d like have to like build a brand around that artist and put the song out and do the artwork and promote it on Myspace and Facebook and things like that and so I started to learn about those things like and really enjoyed that part of it yeah and so I went off to university I studied music and that was where like my problems with money started because I got to university and they handed me a credit card and an overdraft and my mum and dad they split up when I was quite young so I’ve had like stepmums and stepdads growing up and I’ve got like half sisters on both sides and so like in my house both sides never really like taught me the value of a pound there wasn’t like savings accounts or like you must save it was you were sort of very much less to your own devices and my mum and dad kind of spend everything that they earned and they still do now and so that kind of wasn’t installed into me it wasn’t like this is how this works and this is how you need to do things I’m sure they told me a little bits and bobs but it wasn’t like a this is what you need to do or much control around money at that point or you’d make observations about like unconscious observations you’d kind of watch what they do with money but not necessarily take it in consciously exactly yeah and like that change I think when when you get left on your own, you then have decisions to make.

[5:35] Adam and Sammie: And I hadn’t had that grounding. Someone gives you a student loan and you get a few grand dumped in your bank. Yeah. Pub. Yeah. And exactly. Pub, clothes shops, freshers week. It was gone in like three weeks, you know, thousands of pounds. And then it was like, how can we then carry this on? And so it was like more debt to do more debt and then realise you need to get a job because you’ve got to actually pay that back to someone for you’re in this cycle and you know you’re in well because i was in music and i’m you wanted to fit in and i think as well as that crossover of like really wanting to fit in between sort of 11 and 13 meant that i would like always want to have like the nicest things and i always wanted to be like looking cool because and by the round and by the round and be that guy and um that really translated into that that sort of first sort of foray into debt and um it just kind of spiral from there and it was after university it got worse so I moved to London and again then there was a whole other world opened up to you you obviously got to like rent all of these things but I still wanted to be shy when you say you’re in debt then obviously when you’re a student you have your student loan but then you have a student overdraft and I spent most of uni in debt but are you saying it’s a little bit more severe than that and was there loans involved or credit cards mainly credit cards and like student overdraft and then it was payday loans on top of that to pay those back that’s a vicious circle exactly and then it was like defaulting on those and then like not paying that back but then using another one to pay that back and like basically in this like spiral and it just grew and grew and grew and it was never going to end well and eventually luckily I managed to get quite a good job when I came back to London and I moved up the ranks quite quickly so I was quite well paid for my age when I had my sort of aha moment.

[7:33] Adam and Sammie: But I was paying out like eight, 900 pounds in interest a month. Let’s go to the aha moment in a second. But when you’re in that debt, when you’re lying in bed at night trying to sleep, what were some of the thoughts that go through your mind when you’re in debt? Yeah, it’s a really good question. Like a lot of people with debt now, and I was that person, it’s like you find a little pocket of your mind like so deep and and you close the door and you almost like it’s that bury your head in the sand aspect of it like it doesn’t exist if I don’t think about it the letters that turn up with the red like urgent open it’s like ripping half put in the bin so there’s like I was doing all of that and like claiming that I didn’t live at that address anymore and I’m doing all of these things just going to completely like ignore it knowing eventually it will catch up with you but just like I’ll accept it one day and maybe and not even not even thinking like that either just thinking like tomorrow all my mates are going out how can i get enough money to get there um or get that new thing were you scared probably yeah definitely i would say so you know it’s like 23 24 years old living in london like often times where you don’t know how you’re gonna pay rent or you’re like borrowing money off mates and like burning friendships because you didn’t pay them back on time and things like that and so it was all of that and eventually equaled me.

[9:05] Sammie: And I was, as I say, like literally I was probably about a third of my entire wage was just interest payments every single month. It’s mad. And it’s so easily done because that debt was so easy to get and there was no limit. Like it could, it could have been a lot worse. Like I had credit card limits where I actually cut the card up and like throw it away eventually because I, I knew what I was like and I knew how bad my spending was. And so, yeah, like it could have been double that easy, but somehow something in me did sort of cut back a bit. But even so, 24 grand of debt at that age was still like a chunky amount. And that’s like separate to student loan. It’s like just consumer debt. 24 grand in debt.

[9:51] Adam and Sammie: What was the moment that you were like, this is enough? Yeah. So I went on a trip to, paid for by a credit

[9:58] Adam and Sammie: card

[10:03] Sammie: to Vietnam with a few friends of mine and I’ve got a really good friend his name’s Cal and he is just brilliant like we call him the chairman he’s the one in our group in every group every group he’s in he’s called the chairman he’s always captain of the team he’s just a straight down the line guy but also just sound as hell and does very well for himself and he’s And he basically said to me, he was like, you know, when do you want to retire? And this was about 3 a.m. on a beach. We were in Hoi An at the time. I don’t know if anyone’s ever been there, but it’s like stunning. Go there. It’s not on a credit card. It’s quite cheap there. Thank God. But the, yeah, when do you want to retire? And I was like, yeah, you know, 50 would be nice.

[10:49] Sammie: And he said, oh, when do you want to pass? And I said, oh, I’d love to get to 80. That would be good innings. And, you know, how much you spend a year and the amount that I said. And he said, well, times that amount by 30. Do you have that? And I was like, whoa. And it just hit me like a ton of bricks. And I think that was like the floodgates that needed to be opened for me to like accept where I wanted to be because I’d always been entrepreneurial. I’d always had businesses and, you know, always sold t-shirts in the playground, G unit t-shirts, Avirex jackets, which I used to get over from the US. I could always be an entrepreneurial. The goal was to make money, but I was just spending it as fast as I didn’t have control. And, you know, that’s what led me into that position. So all I needed to do is like harness that mindset in the right direction and it would go way better for me.

[11:38] Adam and Sammie: So I said to him, like, you know, I hadn’t opened, no one knew, had a girlfriend at the time. Um, parents didn’t know, like no one knew how big it was. Um, and I only told him and, uh, it felt like a complete weight was off my sort of shoulders or however you want to call it. And when I came back, that was when I started to like dive into money and like, how does this game work? And I was obsessed. I was absolutely obsessed. I read every book. I did loads of courses, like free online courses. I did loads of YouTube videos, tons of podcasts. What was the specific interest in it though? Because I can see how you’ve… the behaviour has gone from I’m in debt now but it seemed like the aha moment was I need to help my future self which is interesting because usually we’re motivated by what’s in front of us immediately it’s hard to be motivated to put pension away for your future self because you’re like oh that’s Adam down the line but actually it seemed like that was the motivation was it actually future Sammie or it wasn’t so my grandad was really successful he is my idol he was a co-founder of Ronnie Scott’s Jazz Club so ho-ho and…

[13:32] Sammie: i grew up like he was the guy and it was like i’m never gonna be that guy if i’m like this and so like to be the guy i have to make some serious changes and i have to start acting like that and so that was my like motivation behind it obviously future sammy plays into that of course but it’s way harder to like attribute like what you’re gonna be like in 30 years it was more like oh you know i kind of won an mbe and like a lifetime service awards and all these types of things. He was like the man of the family. And so I wanted to be that person. And so to go on that journey, like that, that needed to change. And that was the motivation I had. And then, you know, I’ve fallen into a hospitality career.

[14:17] Sammie: So I was a head of marketing for hospitality groups and eventually a business owner in hospitality over those, uh, before I did Up The Gains. But, um, when I started learning about money, it was like, I’d found, I’d fell into hospitality because my grandma was in jazz clubs. My dad run restaurants, my mom run bars and nightclubs, and it was just very at home for me. And so I fell into that career rather than necessarily choosing it. Um, I just happened to be all right at branding and marketing and building things. And, um, when I started learning about money, it was like, I found my thing that I didn’t realise I really enjoyed. It’s like playing at your mate’s computer game around the house and being absolutely obsessed with it forever. That’s what it was like. It was like, I found this thing and I’m so obsessed with it.

[15:05] Adam and Sammie: But it just so happens that if I, the more obsessed I get about it, the better my situation gets as well. Um, so it had like a double-edged sword and I just found it really difficult learning about it as well. It was something that I was so obsessed about, but everything was so hard to understand. It was either written by an American. So you had to like sort of translate it into British terminology or it required an Oxford dictionary to understand what the hell was going on. And I just like. Like, it doesn’t need to be this, like, hard for the everyday person. And over the years from there, started to see, like, how it was just really difficult for everyone in this room that’s here now and my mom and dad and mates of mine and that you just start to see, like, people don’t understand this stuff but they actually really want to but there’s no one really championing other than Martin Lewis who’s amazing but his audience is very different and like who was standing up for our age group at the time not really anyone in the UK the US had hundreds of these people and so that was sort of the start of me sort of trying to figure out how I could start helping people and I was I was helping like sisters and friends and families here and there and it’s kind of gone from there well I did some street interviews for trying to adult the biggest challenge I heard from people on the street was money it was a I don’t know what I’m doing with it and I’m scared so I’m not I’m just going to ignore it and as long as you can see a general trend that you’re not going in debt and maybe you’re not quite running out of money at the end of every month and that was kind of where most people seem to be sat and I feel like your brand and your podcast now is solving that problem for people and what I love the most is that you’ve done it across multiple different formats.

[16:58] Adam and Sammie: I love listening to podcasts. I like watching YouTube videos. And I like, there’s lots of different ways to learn. And I think that’s what your brand offers, right? 100%. Like for me, people like learning in different ways. They like reading, they like listening, they like watching. If you play in one of those spheres, you’re only going to attract those types of individuals. For me, I was like, my mission is to get Britain financially fit to do that I have to show up absolutely everywhere where they’re at and we have to meet them there with high quality content and so obviously you can’t just flick a switch and do that overnight so we had to take sort of steps to be able to do that without the gains and we started with the website and the blogs and getting good at writing first because all of everything else comes pretty downstream from actually getting quite good at writing and sort of connecting with audiences in that way and then we started the the video and the podcast almost in tandem with each other and yeah then it’s about reps and repetition and figuring out what topics people want to hear and how you present them to them and the psychology behind social media and how you stop the scroll and really sort of bringing all of that and for me it’s like growing as well like I grew massively as an entrepreneur and I never stopped learning I maybe didn’t learn about money all of the time and maybe everything I learn and talk about now is 90% business because because that’s what I’m now in that phase of my life because I’ve sort of learned the money game as such and now I’m passing that down but I’m getting better at passing that down by learning about business so that’s where we’re at now and it’s been crazy like I never expected to be in this position we you know we’ve got a top three podcast now in the UK which was mad we hit the business charts we’re in the top three congratulations only Stephen Bartlett and Gary’s economics coming for you damn you Gary damn you Gary but we were above Martin Lewis and Grace Beverly for a day and I just couldn’t like that’s just mad to me how we’ve even managed to do that and so and I just think it’s because I talk to people like they’re people there’s no preaching there’s no grey suit aspect to it there’s no textbooks here it’s like I tried this guys here’s how we do it like to take it or leave it and you know we put nostalgic music behind things play like 70s bangers and earth wind and fire and you know grease music and stuff like that and people are like they can connect to that because we try and stay on their level because we are I’m just an everyday person just like them I just happen to love this and I’ve been through it all and so I want to try and stop people making the same mistakes and people can realise that they can actually change their lives well through like small amounts of money and like learning basics of savings and investing and i always say to people like you can learn everything you need to know about personal finance in three four hours the rest of it is all up here so a lot of it is around like the psychology and the belief and installing it into them that it’s actually possible because i had to go through it on my own and i don’t want others to feel like they have to if you know what i mean So you’ve built this brand now that is helping millions and millions of people with their financial well-being, their emotional connection with finances, helping them save, helping them invest and get more money.

[20:30] Adam and Sammie: But this is just the start, isn’t it? Yeah. Right. And you’ve teased this on a few episodes and I’m sure if you’re close to somebody, you know, Sammie, you probably have had a few conversations with people and it’s been out on your LinkedIn now, even documenting each day of your journey. Yeah. What are you working on now? Yeah. Yeah. So it’s kind of come from, um, basically spending a lot of time and we speak to, you know, I’m one of the weird creators that will reply to every DM that comes in I will voice note people back I’ll have conversations with them because for me it’s all about data and touch points like if I can learn what the kind of bit the culture or the people are thinking we can preempt that in our content and we can make things for them which will help them and that’s really what we’ve got to now we’ve got like five years and probably millions of data points on people in the UK from putting out all of this content and so we’re building an app which is going to help them really kind of as an amalgamation of these problems and it’s really basically something to serve them at mass in that they can use every single day because they see us pop up on Instagram but we’re there for 30 seconds and then it’s back of mind again and how much value does that actually bring I’m sure it does bring a lot but how much value does it really bring how many videos do they have to see before they really change their life and they’ve got to want to as well and so what we want to build is something which is like something that they want to pick up every day and use all of the time which is actually going to make a real benefit to their lives financially and so yeah gains app gains app is and when’s in terms of timelines what we’re looking at yeah so we’re talking late autumn at the moment okay so I’m definitely the type of person that’s going to use that because I watch your content and I take some of it and I action some of it.

[22:34] Adam and Sammie: There’s a lot of stuff I watch. I learn. I learn of it and I become aware of it. I don’t necessarily go and do the thing. And in the back of my mind, I’m thinking, I should be doing that. And that annoys me. That eats me up. That’s frustrating. So who is the app designed for? Yeah, so it’s designed for the everyday person, really. It’s designed for the bus drivers, the banker, the podcast studio owner. It’s designed for all of us because we all need to know what hell is going on with our money. We all hate the fact that we have multiple accounts and spreadsheets here and notes on our phone over here. And there’s nothing really which amalgamates it all into one easy to use platform, which you can speak to as well.

[23:26] Sammie: So we’ve layered like AI in there as well which is trained to speak like like me a little bit and as a proper personality it’s not there to judge you you can ask it hey you know how much have I spent on takeaways last week and the current landscape is you’d have to log into your budgeting app or your banks you’d have to get a bit of paper and you’d have to sit there and write down all your transactions this will tell you in under two seconds like bing you spent 74 pounds Adam in in the time frame which you you ask it to. And so it’s rapid. So it’s really, it’s bringing all your finances under one roof where you can really see what’s going on. You can make plans, you can talk to it and you can say, Hey, I’m, I’ll need to work out how we can figure out my changing my budget a little bit because I’ve got a wedding coming up or I’ve got a holiday coming up or I’ve got my other half’s birthday or I want to buy my fiance, my girlfriend a ring or how can we work on these things together?

[24:24] Sammie: And it will help you with that. of that and the big thing that we got back from our audience is that the cost of living has like gone through the roof since the pandemic people’s foods eggs you know remember eggs were like £1.50 they’re like £3.50 now like that’s a real big problem for so many people in massive areas of their lives but 91% of people are still paying full price for everything they buy which is just nuts and so what if we could change their lives and put money directly back in their pocket in the app as well. So we’ve added instant cashback on top into the app. So you can get five to 7% at most 250 big UK retailers as well. And we’ve calculated it’s like £1,091 for someone earning the median average salary of £37,000 a year.

[25:13] Adam and Sammie: So like £1,000. Adam, how are you going to feel if I’ve put £1,000 back in pocket from money that you are already spending? You’re going to feel quite good, right? Yeah. I’m almost picturing like someone that’s maybe in their 30s they’ve got I don’t know a decent wage they’ve got money coming in maybe they’ve got a young family but where the cost of everything is increasing it feels like this constant vicious cycle where you are cutting back and you are making changes you’re just not getting any actual returns maybe you’re saving a little bit but you’re definitely not then investing and if that’s how someone is now, if they use that app, how would their lives be different?

[26:00] Adam and Sammie: Yeah, I love that you’ve asked that. Yeah, something we’ve included in there is like, it’s quite funny when you log in and you connect your banks, it’ll run a quick wins analysis for you. So it will show you over the past year, you’ve spent £27,000 and you could have saved £1,400 using gains. I think I’d love it and hate it. I need to hear this. But then it will show you like it’s 47 flights to Thessalonica and it’s 700,000 coffees or whatever that might be. So it matches it to real life situations. Yeah, I love that. Because everyone’s different, right? So I use cashback to cover Christmas and it’s incredible for doing that. And we build it up throughout the year. We would draw little bits here and there and put it in savings accounts and earn interest on that as well.

[26:47] Adam and Sammie: But friends of mine use it to top up their investment accounts or to top up their savings for a new house. Or if you’re saving for a new house and get an extra grand in your deposit it over that year you know could be the difference of you being able to buy that house in a year sooner than you already were planning in your savings goals so it’s these little hacks or it’s I am on the bread line and putting 7% of my yearly budget back into my life is puts me back in control and so those are things that you can do everybody’s going to be different in using it in different ways but it’s available and not enough people know about it and I think that’s where we really need to change that because you know a grand for most average person is not small change it is the difference between a route like a holiday or not holiday or paying for the kids school uniforms or not or being able to afford food shopping for an extra month of the year or not and so these are big things we’ll have a safety net we’ll have a safety net and the emotional I don’t have when you know you have a safety net i can’t describe it it’s mad isn’t it having spent a lot of years without it there was always that niggling thing in the back of my mind of like if something goes wrong i don’t know what i’m gonna do yeah and i think if that if the app can help people get the safety net save money for holidays or start to put money in long-term investments or buy their school um their children’s school clothes like it’s these tangible things things that they’re going to get from it yeah i love that you say that and like the app will work with you on this as well like it’s going to ask you these questions do you have a safety net in place no would you like to work with us on doing that yes would you like us to look at your spending to show you how we can get you x y and z and we’ve already done the calculation for you and why would you not like yes yes yes you know like i would and so like that’s why i feel like the current apps don’t do that personalization i of this like your experience on gains and everybody else’s experience of gains in this room will be completely different and that’s what it’s designed to do the tech’s the same but you’re going to have different spending patterns you’re going to shop in Tesco and you’re going to shop in Aldi or someone else is going to be in Waitrose and that’s fine we’re not there to judge we’re just here to show you how you can get more out of your money and that’s really the design of what we’re doing showing like real life examples of changes that you could make I’ve used quite a lot of the other app because there’s lots of apps out there yeah there is and some of them do fantastic things some of them are personalised but there was always too much friction there was always a lot that I needed to do and I’d hold my hands up like appreciate if you want to make change and you have to actually do it but it was too much friction for me to take action because there was always some manual stuff.

[29:48] Adam and Sammie: There was always some kind of spreadsheets. There was always something for you to do and maybe you try it for a couple of weeks and you’re really good and then suddenly you miss it for a few days and you never go back and you’d never use the app again. How is your app going to be different? There is obviously some level of manual input like you’re never going to get away from that and that’s because it’s very, very, very difficult to ascertain that you spent £100 in Tesco or Tesco petrol it doesn’t tell you the difference it will just give you you spent money in Tesco so like you would need to tell us that okay 60 pounds of that spend was on petrol like we otherwise we’re not mind readers we’re not inside your head is never going to get as that smart but what you can do which is what the is different to the other apps is you can talk to it so you can press the diction on there and be like hey yeah would you mind just getting rid of that 60 pounds it’s actually for petrol and it will do it i’d do that so it’s like and you can do that while you’re walking do you know what i mean and and that’s what we’ve had in mind with this it’s like someone just goes no that’s not right like you you would happily tell someone it’s not right in the street so like no that’s not right can you move 30 pounds out of that that was actually for my boots beauty care it’s in the wrong category okay fine bing and it’ll go and it’ll do it and so like that’s really what we want to create it’s the next phase of this and it’s yeah the ability to speak to your money and get the information back and it’s never going to judge you as well it’s not like what I don’t like about a lot of the banking apps in particular is that when you hit the minus it’s in red with a minus figure and it’s very like you know I don’t want to log in and see that I spent years hiding from that and so I know what that feels like and so why don’t we just not do that and not judge anyone around that Like you just say that, you know, you can have it there and you could have it in blue.

[31:47] Adam and Sammie: You can have it in green. It doesn’t have to be associated. Colors don’t need to be associated because that’s what turns you off. So we’ve built it like with a wellness app in mind. So it’s always got your like back and it’s very calming, but it’s also fun and cool. Um, and so, yeah, we’re playing around. Plus we’ve added a roast me feature into the AI as well. So that’s going to be really good fun. And you can like dial it up with a little chili. I, I, I think I don’t want to brush past any of those things because I think that’s probably the most important thing is you’ve considered the details of I didn’t like these other things and it didn’t work for me because of these reasons. If we really just think about it we can just make a few tweaks here to make it not only usable and reduce the friction but actually engaging and I think if you can buy into this thing that you’re using and feel involved and invested you’re going to be so much more likely to stick with that behaviour and it’s free sticking with behaviour then gonna save your money create your safety net then you’re gonna have investments for the future and your future self is then gonna thank you your current self exactly man and like what I love you said that because I one of the big things is that like the apps that are out there now they do like they just they just they’re brilliant in a lot of ways I’m not gonna be around the bush they are they said they serve a purpose but they take take take take take and so we’ve like added loads of surprise and delights moments throughout the app and The more you use it in certain areas, some will tell you, some you won’t tell you.

[33:17] Adam and Sammie: And like you’d have done something successfully for two, three days and bing, we’ll ping you some money and we’ll do some, or we’ll, you know, give you a gift card for something or we’ll enter you into a raffle for the month or something along those lines. And we’re really playing with that, like giving back element as well, because then it encourages their behaviour. It encourages the usage. And we all know the more that we’re going to interact with our money and more than we plan and more than we do things the better we’re going to be and so that’s what’s really like cool about what we’re doing so rewards and gamification is a massive part of it but as we say there’s little surprise and delight elements in there all of a sudden it’ll be like well done you’ll be like what have I done and it’ll tell you and it’ll be because it’s really going to help you build that good habit nice I’m sure there’s a lot of people listening now that are like, can’t wait for this to come out in a few months time.

[34:13] Adam and Sammie: And I’m sure there’s a lot of people listening that want to help you as well, because maybe they’ve got a ton of value from you and they’ve seen your content and they’ve been a supporter of you. Now you’ve got this new venture. What can people do listening now as they’re waiting for it to be released to actually support you on this? Yeah. So thank you. That’s really kind of you to say that, man. And yeah, I hope people will get value from this. The waitlist is open right now and you can join and every single person that joins gets entered into a draw to win their food shopping paid for for an entire year. So do get on there because it could be you, man. I’m going to press a random number. If I win, it looks a bit biased, doesn’t it? Well, I might have to delete this bit. I didn’t win.

[35:01] Adam and Sammie: No, seriously, it will be randomised and we’ll film it all, of course, because we have to. But yeah, your Shopping paid for our entire year all you have to do is pop your email in there and then something’s really cool is that we’re going to be layering on something in a three to four weeks time from now by the time this comes out is you can refer people and then when you can when you can refer people you also get entered into more draws and the more people you refer there’s fixed prizes along the way up as well so it’s a really cool way to like actually earn some cash back and also we’re giving away things like a macbook and a safari holiday for a family of four um cash prizes up to a thousand pounds and so there’s loads of things happening um and that’s a really nice way for people to give back and that’s where you can share this with your friends and family but also feel like you’re getting back something back from us as well for actually doing that as I was saying thank you to you um so yeah any anyone that wants to get involved we’d love to love to have you and if you have any questions as well as I say I was hanging out my dms I love this stuff and I hope it comes through yeah well Sammie thank you one for having me on to talk to you and have this conversation but two just thanks for all of the content that you’ve put out because sometimes content creators you work so hard to help people and often it’s hard to get that feedback that you are actually making a difference in a lot of people’s lives and I’m sure everyone listening now will one go and sign up for the waitlist hopefully they’ll be on a safari on a map if you see me on safari with a map book then with a full shopping cart then you know what’s happened then you shouldn’t trust Sammie studio owner is more I mean, yeah, thank you for everything that you’ve done so far.

[36:45] Adam: And I’m super, super excited for the next step of the app and your business. It’s been good fun. Happy days. Cheers, man.