Lisa Conway-Hughes on How to Avoid Being Broke in Retirement

This transcript is auto-generated and lightly edited for readability, it may contain errors.

[0:00] Sammie Ellard-King:

Welcome back to the Money Gains podcast. Do you want to live your life for now and retire comfortably? We are joined by financial expert Lisa Conway-Hughes. Lisa, welcome to the show.

[0:11] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Thanks for having me on.

[0:12] Sammie Ellard-King:

I am super excited. I’ve been geeking out on some of your podcast episodes with Damien.

[0:17] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Thank you.

[0:17] Sammie Ellard-King:

And they are amazing. When someone’s been on another show like three, four times, you kind of get excited when the guest comes on, I think.

[0:24] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Well, I’m excited. I hope I can do it justice.

[0:27] Sammie Ellard-King:

But for those who don’t know you, just a quick 411 into what you do, that’d be fantastic.

[0:32] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah, so I’ve been a financial advisor, well, all my working life, really, nearly 20 years now. And last year I set up my own financial advisory firm called LCH Wealth. And since 2008, well, in 2008, I started this incognito thing called Miss Lolly, because the company I was working for then didn’t like me being online. And it just started off as a blog, but I was really passionate about talking to people about money in a way that I would understand because I didn’t know anybody that had a financial advisor when I was growing up. It was something completely alien to me. And so I felt all this stuff that I was learning at work was actually stuff that people really needed to know. So that’s what Miss Lolly started out as was a blog, which is quite embarrassing blog post now. But now it’s mainly on Instagram, YouTube, those kind of things.

[1:22] Sammie Ellard-King:

I was reading a couple of the blogs today and I think they’re great.

[1:25] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Oh, thank you.

[1:25] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah, they’re they’re really good fun. There’s a few questions actually about that today, but I want to kickstart this for someone because I feel like when it comes to wealth and building wealth in general, like everybody struggles with this like, how much am I going to need to have for my life and that retirement number? And it really hit home with me. And that was actually the catalyst. So I struggled with debt quite badly in my 20s. And it was when someone’s very easy to do as well.

[1:55] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Very easy to do.

[1:56] Sammie Ellard-King:

Oh God. Extremely. Yeah. Uh, you know, the it’s even more so in today’s day and age as well, with the consumerism culture, absolutely. But I think the my friend basically asked me, you know, how long did I want to uh live for? How l when did I want to retire? And how much are you spending a year and did that calculation with me? And it scared the living daylights out of me. And that was my moment of like, okay, I really need to do something about this. But it scares a lot of other people as well. And so when you work with someone, how do you work out with them how much they actually need to retire?

[2:32] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Well, it is a scary number. Um, and so you’ve got to work out what’s your reaction going to be to it because some people like you are thinking, right, that’s a challenge, I’m gonna achieve it. And some people are gonna run away from it and not do anything, and that’s pointless. So before I tell you, you’ve got to think about what is going to be your reaction so you can overcome it. And if you’re a natural person to run away or be an ostrich, then um brace yourself. But it’s take the money that you want every year, and as a rough sort of um rule of thumb, times it by 25. So if you want 10,000 pounds a year in retirement, which obviously isn’t a lot, but you’re gonna need 250,000 in your pot. If you want 40,000 pounds a year in retirement, you’re gonna need a million pounds in your pot. And that’s in today’s prices. So as inflation rises, that goal is gonna get bigger and bigger with inflation. So when you hear um in the news um retirement millionaires, pension millionaires, um, they’re not actually as rich as they sound. Um so yeah, I think working out this 25 times rule is a good, as it is, a rule of thumb. But if you want an exact number, there are loads of websites like Fidelity’s got one, or Aviva, Scottish Widows. Go on those pension company websites um and you put in your age, what you’ve got already, um, expected growth rates, um, and and it will project forward what you’re likely to get. And there isn’t many, there aren’t many people where it’s not a shock. So just be prepared for a shock. And then I think the other side of the coin is when you’re deciding what to do about it, is you can only do what you can physically do right now. So that is enough. So starting is important and financial planning is really hard. The the beginning of it is small gains that are really uninteresting.

[4:19] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah.

[4:19] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Um, so start small and just yeah, give yourself a break, I would say.

[4:23] Sammie Ellard-King:

That’s such a good point. And people like, why is it 25 years? What what they ask, I get this question a lot. They’re like, Why are you saying 25?

[4:31] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah. It’s not because we want you to die on year 25. It’s because if you had £100,000 and you could reasonably um hope that your investment portfolio might grow at 4% after costs and charges. Um, and so um therefore you’re spending 4% um every year. So £4,000. So that’s £25 times £4,000 times £25 is £100. Um, and some people say that that’s too optimistic. Loads of Harvard boffins always come up with a number closer to three, so then you’d need to do 33 times the number. Some people say, well, the stock market grows at 7-8% a year, so maybe you only need 11, 10, 11 times um the number. But 25, I think, is uh is is a starting point. And then as you get closer to retirement and your pot becomes more significant, then you can start to really um take note of the m your actual personal calculation.

[5:31] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah, yeah, you’re totally right. And I think calculating at seven, eight percent is dangerous. Yeah. I think it’s way too risky, especially when you’re factoring in inflation too. Yeah. It should be lower. Um and if you get the added bonus, great.

[5:46] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah, exactly. And also you might be getting seven, eight percent or even more now quite easily if you look back over the last 10 years. Um, but you’re not going to feel like the investor like you feel like today when you’re 80.

[5:58] Producer:

No.

[5:59] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

So you’re not going to be willing to take as much risk as perhaps the risk that comes quite easy to you now. Um, so you’ll be a very different person.

[6:06] Sammie Ellard-King:

And how do you deal with someone that’s like, I don’t know what I’m going to be or like in 30 years? You know, I don’t know future me.

[6:14] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Some people really push against that question. I think it’s mainly because they don’t want to think about it. Um, the uh I usually ask it in reverse, like, what do you not want then? That’s usually an easier question to answer. Like, are you going to be someone like my granddad who would sit at home, read the sun, love page three, read the sun at home.

[6:38] Danielle:

I bet he’s fuming now, they’ve changed it.

[6:41] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Um, and his weekly trips were going to the post office to collect his pension and spending it in the butcher’s next door. Like, is that the life that you want? If so, that’s probably living off the state pension you don’t have to do very much. Um, or do you want to live thinking like my other grandparents went on loads of holidays and foreign travel was really important to them? So maybe it’s about thinking about what it is that you don’t want. Like, do you want to stay in your home or do you want to be forced to downsize? Do you want to be able to help family members, your kids out financially, or do you think it’s up to them? They can sort themselves out. So yeah, maybe ask it in reverse if you’re pushing against that question.

[7:19] Sammie Ellard-King:

But I think that’s a brilliant way to look at it. I’ve never thought of it like that, actually. Like getting to do the like, I don’t want to be in that situation. Yeah. Gives you much more of a kick up the backside, doesn’t it? I think in a lot of cases. Um, but we see like numbers thrown around, like the average retirement pot in the UK is roughly £90,000 for men, slightly lower for women. And like that again, as we’ve just done the 25 times calculation, isn’t much. And that’s quite dangerous. And then we see, you know, comfortable retirement numbers, the PLSA saying sort of 30,000, 40,000 a year. Again, for a lot of people, that doesn’t really feel like you know, retirement is we get to you’re supposed to feel like this is my golden years. I’ve worked hard for this opportunity to now, you know, it spend the fruits of my labours. Um how does someone actually just go, okay, this is probably what I’m gonna need to work it out because we’re not working at that point. We want to be doing stuff.

[8:18] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

So, like I always say, it’s the eternal weekend, and we all spend more money Friday, well, Friday night, Saturday, Sunday, compared to Monday morning, for example. But you have all that time then. So you and you I tend to find within my client base that when people retire, they don’t just suddenly become pipe and slippers and sit in front of the sofa. There’s there’s this general need to go and spend your money, have fun, live your life, do all those exciting things that you that are on your list of things that you’d like to do. Um, and then maybe in middle retirement things become a bit more simpler. But then don’t forget about the very end as well, because that can be hugely expensive. Like if you’re in a care home and this might will seem a million miles away, but it is important not to spend too much too early because if you’re in a care home, you can be spending a couple of grand a week if you need really quite intensive care. Yeah. Um it can be expensive. And if you want to stay in your home and have care come to you, again, what do you want? Do you want to have to downsize to go and live in a care home, or do you want the care to come to you? I think that’s a really important thing to think about when you’re in your 40s, let’s say, because that will really change the amount of money that you’re going to need later on.

[9:36] Sammie Ellard-King:

It’s so hard to do that though, isn’t it? Because you’re like, I even now I’m looking up and thinking, God, so I think I’m a bit strange.

[9:43] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

I like making the target really scary and it excites me. But I understand that a lot of people aren’t like that, that a scary target is exactly that.

[9:51] Sammie Ellard-King:

If you have a client that’s lacking that motivation, the the inverse factor is obviously helpful, but is there any other things that you might do with them?

[9:59] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Um fortunately, most people come to me because they’re they’re ready. Some people that knowledge maybe they’ve left it a little bit too late. Um, but most of the time they are motivated. The clients who aren’t that motivated to do it, and I probably I could think of three off the top of my head. I won’t out them, but they know who they are anyway, um, because they know about it in their annual review. But it if you want to know are are you spending too much today to not have enough later on? Um, and if you actually took a step back, future you really, really won’t be having that much fun. And so it is about getting the balance. There’s no point doing the opposite. Like I some of the wealthiest people that I have, I actually have to spend time with them, encouraging them to spend, take those holidays now, but their mindset is completely different. So being the other end of the spectrum isn’t as helpful either.

[11:00] Danielle:

That’s how they got there, isn’t it?

[11:01] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Well, exactly. Exactly. But it yeah, you’ve got to find that happy balance, and it is very hard.

[11:52] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah. For me, there’s kind of like an uh is it eliqu el eliqu eliquicum? Eliquibirum? I can’t even say that word.

[11:59] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Equilibrium.

[12:00] Sammie Ellard-King:

Thank you, guys. Certain words I really struggle with, and that as well for it, and I went for it, and I don’t know why on a live on a podcast as well. Like, what am I doing? Um, but I for me there’s like a balance. I need to find that, you know. I want to live life now, but I also really, really want to take care of your future me, and then I also want to take care of like 40s, 50s me with my ISAs and things like that as well. Um, but I want to have fun, I’m never gonna be younger than I am today. Yes, and it things will just progressively. I’m now 35, and then uh and it print things progressively get harder from this age on. It’s just a fact, and so like you don’t want to give up that opportunity, but you still need to balance that balance.

[12:47] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yes. So I think a really good exercise to do is to once a year really zoom out of your financial picture and say, right, what what’s important to me? So what am I going to spend my money on this year that’s fun, that will satisfy that desire to live in the moment, but also what do I owe myself for future me? So we have this tool, a cash flow modeling tool. And through that cash flow modelling tool, every client’s got a number, and that’s the thing, the number that you have to save every year if you want your um goals to be achieved. And so when you know that number, you can you can put that into your plan and say, well, this much is for the future, me, this much is for fun, and then this much is for the day-to-day living. And I think if you can take that step back, you can try and find that balance. And for most people, unless you’re extremely wealthy, it means there’s gonna have to be some cutbacks, but the pain’s gonna come one day, whether it’s now or later.

[13:49] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah. Yeah. And it’s like identifying, like, I’ve never seen a budget from someone that hasn’t got something in it. When you have a chat with that person, they’re like, Yeah, you know, been doing that out of convenience. I should I could probably cut back in those areas to give myself the the more of the balance going back into both savings, but equally as well, being able to like move some of that money into things which are much more impactful to me now as well. When you do that cash flow modeling, then what entails into that? Because that sounds like really good fun.

[14:21] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah, so it’s only an hour. It is fun. I I love doing them. It’s only an hour, and you’ll have to have done lots of prep in advance. Right. Um, and before that meeting, I’ll know where you are now, a rough idea of your goals, although some people’s goals aren’t that comprehensive. So we’ve got to tease it out of them in the session. And then we project forward at really pessimistic rates of return to get an idea of what investment returns do you need every year, and what do you need to put away every year out of your own money? Um, and then we just play around with it. So I did a lovely session with a lady yes um last week, sorry, who was really being pulled in lots of directions. She wanted a house in France, she wanted to do up her house, um, and it either needed a 200 grand extension or a 500 grand extension. Um, she slightly big list. She was thinking, can I privately educate my kids through secondary school? Okay. And can I retire early? And I was like, well, let’s give it a go. And it’s lovely when people come with these huge plans because I’ve then got something to actually plan for them. So it was a case of, well, you can do the big extension, but you can’t have France unless you work till 65. But you can do the big extension, know France and work and retire at 60 as an example. And so it just gives you clarity. So for her, it’s like, well, actually, of those three options, um France wasn’t as important as retiring early and um doing the extension. And then her husband should have been on the call because we decided he was going to be responsible for the school fees.

[15:59] Sammie Ellard-King:

He should have turned up. It sounds like my house. Yeah. He’s gonna sort that bit out. Yeah.

[16:05] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

But yeah, we decided that wasn’t as important for her. And if if he could manage to save it um for by building his business, then that’s what they’d do. It’d be nice to have. Yeah. But yeah, so that’s a perfect example of the things that we plan in those sessions. And I think when you’ve got that clarity in your mind, like uh this lady, let’s say I need to save, I think it was 18,000 pounds a year. She’d save 18,000 pounds a year to be on track for everything, including France. And she was fine with it. It was a really I think it changed it for I hate saving, I hate investing, or God putting money into my pension feels like it’s money for a lifetime away, to actually giving it real purpose of what you’re doing with that money.

[16:45] Sammie Ellard-King:

So you mentioned those goals there, which I think is a really nice thing. Like the the lady came, she’s got clear mindset. Yeah, like not everybody is like that. So when you’re coaxing goals out of people in these sessions, like what how are you making them like envision what they want? Because everybody says pina colada, beach, you know, just want to sit there, and then the reality of that hits them when it actually happens and they’re like, I’m bloody bored and I need to need to do something, you know.

[17:12] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah, I think um, well, I don’t know if this is definitely the right way to go about it, but it’s how my brain works. So when somebody maybe feels quite depressed about a financial plan, I always show them their stretched targets. Well, if you just did X, Y, and Z, or if you got 8% return instead of 7% return, then the the picture is completely different. Um, and so yeah, I use um a bit of carrot and stick, I suppose, in the in that session to try to get that balance because you need you want someone to come out of that session feeling completely motivated, knowing what they need to do. Um and either they go off and do that by themselves with the projects that they’ve already got in place, their workplace pension, for example, and the ISA they’ve already gets got set up, or they come on board as a client. But either way, I want them walking away knowing, right, I’ve got a plan. And most people, if they have done one with us, they’ll come back every two, three, four years or a life change um just to get it remodeled again so that you just keep tapping yourself back in the right direction.

[18:15] Sammie Ellard-King:

Oh, that’s a nice thing. So it’s like, yeah, I, you know, things have changed a little bit for me. Maybe I’ve got a promotion or a big bonus and I want to know how that’s going to massively affect it. Um, you mentioned tax brackets there, and I think that’s a brilliant segue because I think people struggle with this whole pensions and ISAs conversation and like, oh, I’m now earning 55 grand and I don’t want to pay that extra tax. And how do you manage that with with people?

[18:41] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah. So as a financial advisor, you can’t help but go to the to the perfection of the tax plan. And sometimes I have to stop myself, think, right, real life here, Lisa, they can’t be having beans and be perfectly tax efficient. So I think you’ve got to do that with yourself. So if someone was earning 55,000, um I would really want to manage their tax down so that they were earning £50,270.

[19:08] Producer:

Yeah.

[19:08] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Um, and that means that they pay no high rate tax. So let’s just say it’s five grand that they’ve got to put in their pension. Um, if they’re putting that directly in their pension through salary sacrifice, they’re only worse off out of their pocket by three grand a year. But their pension’s better off by five. Um, so it’s working out can you afford plus the growth. Plus pot yes, plus potential growth. So can they afford to live off three grand less a year? Yeah. I’m trying to do the maths. Is that 250 quid a month?

[19:40] Sammie Ellard-King:

Roughly, yeah. Yeah.

[19:41] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

So it is, yeah. 250 quid a month. Can they live without that? If so, let’s definitely, definitely do the pension because we want that tax relief from the government. And I don’t want to cut cause hysteria, but there’s been rumours for a very, very long time, even with between before the Labour government was in um power, but with the Tories that you’ve got loads of people on 20% getting 20% tax relief because they’re paying 20% tax, but loads of people getting 40% tax and then some at 45%. And the more money you have, the more tax relief you get. And people who are on low incomes are getting the least amount of income. So it makes complete sense from a moral point of view. Let’s make it a level playing field. And I know a lot of research has been done into what if everyone just paid got 30% tax relief. So lower earners were getting a 50% boost, and obviously the higher earners were getting less. Um, and that feels a very labour policy to me. So if if that were ever to come into play as a high rate taxpayer, you’re gonna be really grateful that you did get the high rate tax relief when it was around. Yeah. Um so I don’t know if it’s going, but it There’s rumours. Yes, there’s rumours and research has been done.

[20:58] Sammie Ellard-King:

But um I mean it’s fantastic that it’ll raise up, you know, people that are on low salaries, but I can imagine people that are higher be up again.

[21:06] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Exactly. So get it while it’s there.

[21:07] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah, yeah.

[21:08] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Just in case, I think.

[21:10] Sammie Ellard-King:

No, you’re totally right. So you think salary sacrifice is something that people would definitely should consider to bring themselves down onto those back brackets. Exactly. How would you manage, say, someone that’s in the middle of that bracket, so like 70, 80k, and like what would you do then?

[21:24] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah, so you’ve first got to work out what what do you need um for your short, medium, and long goals. If your short term, if you could live off 50,000 for your short-term needs, then go big. Yeah. Do a massive contribution.

[21:39] Producer:

Yeah.

[21:39] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Um but or or do a big contribution every second year, let’s say. So that every second year you’re getting below the 50, but the next year you’re remaining a 40% taxpayer, let’s say. Um, I think that’s quite a nice way to do it, to do it, because most people don’t have enough for that long term.

[21:57] Sammie Ellard-King:

Um and life as well, right? Exactly. Yeah.

[22:00] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Um, and so maybe if if in that example of I like this plan really, the every other year being a big pension yeah. So obviously do what you have to do every month to get your the most from your employer. Um, but to go big every second year is a nice thing. And then maybe you go big on your ISA the other year to top up your medium term. I think that’s a nice way to do it.

[22:20] Sammie Ellard-King:

And when would you consider ISAs with someone as a part of their strategy?

[22:25] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

For retirement.

[22:27] Sammie Ellard-King:

Well, in general, just kind of wealth.

[22:29] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Well, most clients we would prioritize getting as much tax relief as we can in the pension and also doing the £20,000 allowance. But um fortunately for them and me, most of my clients can afford to do both. But if um if you can’t afford to do both, it’s just going to it it’s going back to that original thing that I said at the beginning. You’ve just got to do what you can do. Yeah. Um and set up monthly direct debits to the pension, to the ISA and just leave them alone.

[22:59] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah. Yeah.

[23:00] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Don’t try and become a day trader.

[23:02] Sammie Ellard-King:

No. Please. Please please don’t. And we literally did a video, I think Danielle might even be editing it right now, is we’re with how to automate your finances. Like automation is so key with these things, even on small or large amounts, and it doesn’t necessarily matter. You want to just take that manual input out of it. Um so ISAs are important for people because of the access. How do you handle that with them? Because that 57 lockup.

[23:28] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

So it how do we motivate them to put their money away for the long term?

[23:32] Sammie Ellard-King:

For the for the pension, yeah.

[23:34] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Um the tax relief. It’s always the incentive, especially if it’s a personal contribution. Because let’s say I’m a um a 40% taxpayer and I pay in £80 into my pension out of my own money. The government’s gonna top that up to £100, so I get 20% tax relief. Um and then um when I do my tax return, I’m gonna get another £20 back in my tax return.

[23:58] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah, it gets paid into bank.

[24:00] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

It feels like free money. It’s lovely. And so for clients in that situation, um, we don’t let them feel the enjoyment of that £20 rebate. That’s the money then that fills the ISA. So by doing your pension contribution in that way, if you’re doing extra into a personal pension, the tax relief can be your ICE money for the next year.

[24:19] Sammie Ellard-King:

That’s really clever. Yeah, a lot of people don’t know about that on the higher tax brackets, and you can backdate it as well, can’t you?

[24:25] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yes, I always forget it’s three or four years, but um most people assume that you get so what we’re talking about is really salary sacrifice. So let’s say I’m with an I’m with a pension at work and I earn £100,000 and um I pay £20,000 into my pension, I’m only gonna pay tax and national insurance on 80,000. However, and I know 100’s a high number, but I’m using it for the um simplicity. Yeah. Um, and then if I earned um £100,000 and um my company doesn’t use salary sacrifice, I’m gonna pay tax and national insurance on the whole lot, then I’m gonna put some money in my pension. The pension provider’s gonna give me 20% tax relief, and that’s the end of the story. But actually, I’m a 40% taxpayer, so I’m gonna have to add those pension contributions onto my tax relief and so much tax return, sorry, so many people don’t realise that. And some big, big companies that you’d be surprised um aren’t using salary sacrifice. And so check the question to ask your HR team is am I using salary sacrifice or do I need to put these pension contributions onto my um onto my tax return every year? And you’ll see when you go into your statement, into your pension, a good clue is if it’s just one contribution from the employer and no tax relief on the statement, you know it’s all happened because the tax relief’s been taken through salary sacrifice. But if you see the amount you pay in, like the 80 plus the 20, yeah, you know that you’re not getting the you know that that’s a sign you probably should be putting it on your um.

[26:08] Sammie Ellard-King:

So a lady I never had it when I was on Oh, salary sacrifice. Yeah, no. So I had to reapply, do my tax return every year. And I didn’t know about it as well, and I backdated it and got two two years, I think, when it was when I was over the threshold. So it was a lovely bump.

[26:23] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yes, exactly.

[26:24] Sammie Ellard-King:

Really, like it’s free money at that point.

[26:26] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

I can’t remember the number, but it’s a huge amount of pension tax relief that goes unclaimed because people don’t know that.

[26:32] Sammie Ellard-King:

Wow. Huge I I I would like to say, why is it not just a simple system that just works? Like it’s why make it complicated. You’re already adding 20%. Should be just like almost like a thing. It’s gone over the threshold. Okay, now it’s 40.

[26:47] Producer:

Yes.

[26:47] Sammie Ellard-King:

But that’s a really nice touch. So, like you that money that comes in on the rebate then goes into people’s ISAs, you tell them not to think it’s money that exists for me to buy a red sports car.

[26:57] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

No, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

[26:58] Sammie Ellard-King:

Okay, cool. That’s a really good strategy. How do you play this with clients in terms of modelling for, for example, um, when somebody joins an organization, they usually put on a default fund and there are a multitude of options available to them, sometimes a very small amount depending on the pension provider. Um, example being my mum found £65,000 in a lost workplace pension.

[27:22] Producer:

Good for her.

[27:23] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah, it was uh a good win. Um she could have had £110 on a more balanced fund, just a straight middle risk fund. Um and that’s a considerable gap. Obviously, that’s been compounding since her 20s, so it’s a it’s you know, that’s why the gap’s so large. But that’s a quite a big thing for people to get right, because you know, if you are in your 30s or 40s listen to this, that’s potentially quite a lot of money. Um but how do you get people to manage that and work that out and whether it’s right for them?

[27:57] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

So, well, first of all, we’ve got to know what the default fund is. Um, so don’t don’t forget these pension providers, you’re paying them, you’re their customer, they need to work for you. So don’t be nervous to ring up and ask questions. And if you get someone on the phone who isn’t answering your question in the right way, maybe it’s not your problem, maybe they don’t know. So ring again and get someone nice. That’s so true. Sometimes, obviously, when I ring some pension providers, it’s really clear that the person on the other end of the phone doesn’t know what I’m asking.

[28:25] Sammie Ellard-King:

Um, so won’t name names, but definitely been there.

[28:28] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

So don’t assume it’s you and don’t forget you are the customer. So ring up, say what’s the default fund? And the default fund is just the one you’re naturally put into if you don’t do anything. And obviously the company has a duty to make sure that default fund is good, but it’s good for everyone. So it might not be good for you at all stages of your career. Um, the other thing to find out is if it’s lifestyling. So what that means is when you’re young, they’re gonna take a lot of risk. And as you usually get between 10 and 15 years before retirement, they’re gonna start to reduce the risk and sell away from equity equities. And that with hindsight could be a brilliant thing, but it also could be the wrong thing because they’re not selling based on the market conditions, it’s an automatic sell based on your age, like the life strategy funds at Vanguard, etc. Um, so um those ones I don’t think do it, but the just look out for lifestyling.

[29:19] Sammie Ellard-King:

Lifestyling.

[29:20] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Lifestyling in in the um in the pension. Um, so find that out and then ask the employer’s pension scheme have you got a book of all the funds that I could be in and all the costs and charges? And then you can just look at something like trustnet.com and put in um look go through the funds. There’s probably not going to be that many. If there are hundreds of funds that you might get hundreds of funds, say with a Scottish Widows or an Aviva, then they have their a fund filter on where on their website where you can you a drop-down box, put the name of the pension you’re in, which could be like group stakeholder, group personal pension. Aviva always is a design a pension. Very classy. Um, and then you filter all the pension funds that are available and you can tick, I would like um a global equity fund. Right. And then you can sort, let’s say, for example, um, and then you could sort by costs and charges and by performance and start to use those fund filter tools to get the pension fund for you. But just be wary because the non the non-default ones usually are a bit more expensive. So you’ve got to justify that expense.

[31:39] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah, fees are an enormous part of this as well. Um what should people look out for there?

[31:46] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

So um, some really old pensions, you know, like when you go and buy currency, there’s a buy price and there’s a sell price.

[31:53] Producer:

Yeah.

[31:53] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

In the world of pensions, it’s called bid off a spread. And um, it might be called that in in um currency, I don’t know. But in our world, it’s bid off a spread. And you find in older pensions that there’s a say a 5% initial. So if you paid £100, then five goes in charges. So just check, because I had a man um with an old company pension scheme is going to do a big lump sum contribution going back many years. It was nearly 200,000 that it was going to pay in. I was like, before you do it, just check if there’s a bid off a spread. I thought I was being a bit um belts and braces about it, all but there was. There was. So that would have been nearly a 10 grand initial fee. Um, and also um other companies other modern pension schemes have it too. So Nest have it. Um, Nest have an initial charge every time you pay in. I think it’s 1.8% charge. So if you’re going to top up your workplace pension by a huge amount, it happens to be NEST. Have you factored in the the initial charge? Or because Nest isn’t isn’t expensive once you’re in it, but that initial charge, if you’re paying in a big lump sum like that guy was, might put you off. Yeah.

[33:04] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah. We’re with Nest.

[33:06] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah.

[33:07] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah. As a company. Should probably look at that. I didn’t know that existed.

[33:10] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah, there’s an 1.8%. The the sell is really if your salary sacrificing, it’s offset by the national insurance saving, but it’s still um an initial charge. And then um, I’ve lost my train of thought. What was I talking about? Oh, costs and charges.

[33:26] Producer:

Yeah.

[33:27] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

So you’ve got you need to be careful of initial charges, and that’s the same with any investments. And especially if there’s a financial advisor involved, there’s gonna be initial fees. We’ve got to make our money somehow.

[33:39] Producer:

Yeah.

[33:39] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Um, but some of in our industry, some of those can be huge. So really know what are my initial charges before you do anything. And then annual charges, there’s typically three charges. Um, there’s the fund charge, so that’s the investment.

[33:53] Sammie Ellard-King:

Um and I mean they vary quite a lot, don’t they?

[33:56] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

They really, really do. You’re right. Um, like from 0.1 to 1.5 is probably a very common spread.

[34:04] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah, some of them I’ve seen like 0.05, some of them I’ve seen like one, and I’m like, this is exactly the same.

[34:11] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Huge.

[34:11] Sammie Ellard-King:

Just from a different provider.

[34:13] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah, a very big spread in of that can be out there. And also different, so um different share classes can have different charges as well. So um I noticed one of my clients was um in a Royal London fund 0.8. If she switched um share class, she’d get down to 0.6.

[34:32] Sammie Ellard-King:

For the same yes, yeah.

[34:33] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

It’s different share class.

[34:34] Sammie Ellard-King:

Mad.

[34:35] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Um and and that it adds up. It does add up a lot.

[34:39] Sammie Ellard-King:

It really can be scary when you do it with people as well.

[34:42] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

It’s got to be justified, I think. Yeah because cheap doesn’t mean good, but expensive doesn’t mean good not good either.

[34:47] Sammie Ellard-King:

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. And trustnet’s great to see that kind of thing and understand whether that fund is worth anything to look at.

[34:56] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Exactly. And when you’re looking at the annual charge of the fund, there’s usually a charge plus all the other bits. And those all the other bits, um usually if you want to if you want to sound posh on the phone to the pension provider, just say what’s the total expense ratio. They’ll know it as a TER. What’s the TER or the yeah, the total cost of everything for that fund? Um, then you’re gonna have the wrapper charge. So the three charges we’ve had we’ve talked about fund charge. Then there’s a wrapper charge. Often in older older pensions, it’s all muddled mingled into one. So you might not have this wrapper charge. Um, but a wrapper is the place you put the money. So um, if I am with, let’s say, Fidelity, um, and fidelity are gonna want to be paid for the administration that having my investment with them costs them.

[35:53] Sammie Ellard-King:

Because it costs them. Yes, exactly.

[35:54] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

And they’ve got to write off for your tax release.

[35:56] Sammie Ellard-King:

Kind of like a platform fee where they’re nice to be. Exactly.

[35:59] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Exactly, a platform fee. Yeah, it’s exactly the same thing, you’re right. Platform fee, wrapper fee. And then lastly, me, advisor fee. Um, and so we see so many times, well, I hear a lot um on my Instagram people telling me that they’re paying an advisor fee, but they’ve never ever had or haven’t had for a long time.

[36:17] Sammie Ellard-King:

The in-house ones.

[36:18] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yes, ongoing advice advice. So if you’re if you’re paying an advisor fee and you’re not getting um value for money from that, then you can stop it, but also you can ask for a rebate. Um, we’re duty bound to provide annual reviews to all clients if they’re paying us an annual fee.

[36:37] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah, yeah. Um my other half’s mum’s had it. She’s like, I’ve spoken to them, but I spoke to them six years ago.

[36:42] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yes.

[36:43] Sammie Ellard-King:

And so she’s now claiming that. Oh, she has perfect. Yeah, and they and they paid it to be fair. Uh I mean provided.

[36:49] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

It’s a hot topic with the FCA at the minute.

[36:51] Sammie Ellard-King:

I’m not surprised because it’s it’s that I when she told me I was like, what?

[36:56] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

It’s money for nothing, which is the right way. Yes.

[37:00] Sammie Ellard-King:

So it’s not small amounts of money, especially the amount you know, contributing over that time frame. It’s in the thousands, she’s she’s paid out in fees. So it’s you know, it’s and you know, that’s literally her retirement in a few years’ time. So yeah, it’s a make a big, big difference to her. Yeah. Um now we’ve kind of gone through pensions, I think, but uh you know, retirement age is massively increasing at the moment. Obviously, we’ve gone through this kind of cost of living period, things have got more expensive, wages haven’t grown at the the the same rate, so they are starting to rebalance back out, hope hopefully. Um but how do we basically manage that? Because everyone’s got this number of 65 in their head, realistically, that’s looking a lot older now.

[37:52] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah.

[37:53] Sammie Ellard-King:

Do you actively talk about this with your clients too, and how do you get them to manage that?

[37:58] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Well, first off, looking at it, I’m in my mid-40s. Did you say your mid-30s?

[38:04] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah.

[38:05] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

We we still think retiring early is an amazingly great thing to do.

[38:11] Sammie Ellard-King:

It’s happening. But I don’t think I can retire though. I would literally go mad. Like I’ve watched my granddad go from and both my granddads go from like extremely like high pressure roles where they’re you know managing jazz clubs or or running papers, stopped and then both deteriorated within months. So I’m like, I’m not doing that, I’m just not gonna stop, you know. But I don’t think I could as well. I’m that type of individual. But I know there are other people that were like, you know, I can’t do this for a while.

[38:41] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Well, especially if you hate your job, uh you you you’ll want to stop. But I mean, running jazz clubs sounds quite fun as well.

[38:49] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah.

[38:49] Danielle:

Um but I think he he probably had to stop, he couldn’t hear a bloody thing, and that kind of helps, you know.

[38:55] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Um but I think um a really important thing in my client base is overwhelmingly people we we go hard to retire early, get everything in a in in a row and sorted to retire early. The client retires, maybe goes a bit bonkers for a few years and spends far too much or not enough, as I said earlier, and then goes back to work.

[39:20] Sammie Ellard-King:

Goes back, yeah.

[39:21] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Goes back into the workforce because it it wasn’t what they wanted, this early retirement goal. So I think a lot of people are thinking about I don’t want to be doing that job at that intensity till I’m 67, but maybe I would like a a different career, a different, the slower pace, something perhaps more meaningful. So it doesn’t have to be that you retire at 60 and don’t do anything, but also every year that you work to be like a stop.

[39:51] Sammie Ellard-King:

No off a cliff, kind of.

[39:52] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

And I think it’s not good for people to do that. No, but but also the impact on your finances, because let’s say you were earning 60,000 pounds a year, but now you’re earning 30. If you could live off your 30,000 a year, and the benefit is you’re d deferring taking your pension and your investments for another year, another two years, another three years, and that deferring of say for five years or more is going to have a ginormous impact on the amount of money that you’ve you’ve got because A, it’s been allowed to grow for longer. Yeah, come back. Also, you’ve got less years to spend it. Yeah. Um, so just just you don’t necessarily I was talking about this yesterday to a client who really does not like his job. He works in a very high-pressured um trading environment, and he’s 48, and we’d always planned for him to retire at 50. And we just started to flash out really what would he need to earn to still enjoy the life that he’s quite accustomed to, um, but not have to earn the seriously big box. And it meant that he had to earn a fifth of what he was earning now from 50.

[41:01] Sammie Ellard-King:

That’s amazing.

[41:02] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yes, a fifth. And so it’s it’s still a lot because he’s earning a lot, but um, the pressure, I think it’s what are we actually working really, really hard for? And and I had a lovely one with a client who was divorcing and she felt she didn’t have enough. And it’s like, well, would you rather work for an extra five years but have an extra five grand a year for holidays?

[41:25] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah, yeah.

[41:26] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

And of and of course she chose that.

[41:28] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah. Or you go from the four, the three to the four star, the four to the five star hotels. And it makes a big difference to your quality of the yeah. That’s such a good point. It’s a really nice way of looking at it because actually you’re right. It’s not like you’re not you’re not sacrificing five years one way, it’s five years both ways. And so then it gives you that bigger pot. But I wanted to ask you, because obviously we haven’t spoken around like when you see a lot of people do these kind of models, they say, Oh, you know, the 500 quid or a thousand pounds, but then they have a child, or they, you know, which are as we all know, are bloody expensive. And seasons of life require different kind of models and different ways to fit that.

[42:14] Producer:

Yeah.

[42:14] Sammie Ellard-King:

When you do that work with your clients, like how do you get them to think about these key life moments and how it impacts their contribution?

[42:23] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah, my husband my husband always takes the Mickey out of me because he can hear me doing these sessions, these one-off sessions with people. And he’s like, You go in with the hard-hitting stuff straight from the beginning. It’s like, well, I need to know it. And it’s questions that um in if I met them in the pub, you wouldn’t dream of asking. But are you going to have kids, one or two kids? Do you think you’ll privately educate them? Where are you going to live? You’re going to need to look after your parents, you’re going to inherit from your parents. So the questions come fast and hard, and they’re quite personal. And I can tell sometimes.

[42:53] Danielle:

Imagine you sit in a levar with a with a pike going, tell me about your parents.

[42:58] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

I don’t have very good social fast skills as a consequence. But um it it does these things are really important. And and we talk like I know all of my clients’ inner secrets, really, like from are we going to be planning IVF? Are we going to be planning surrogacy? What like really personal things that you wouldn’t um expect to be talking to about a financial advisor? But if that plan’s going to be meaningful and it’s going to be accurate, then as long as the client feels comfortable, I I want to put it in the plan because then it makes it a really, really personalized plan. Yeah.

[43:37] Sammie Ellard-King:

And then you can accurately forecast.

[43:39] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yes.

[43:39] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah.

[43:40] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

And if those things don’t happen or you have the one child instead of the two, then Yeah, I think if someone’s on the fence and say, Oh, well, I’d like two or three kids, we’d put in three into the model. And then if you don’t and you have less, then there’s a little bit more money to spare.

[43:55] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah, I love that. So your main thing is like, don’t let it totally derail you. Pre-think about these things and factor them in.

[44:02] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yes. Is that I can tell when I do it with like maybe a newly engaged couple, one of them’s always squirming where we go through these questions.

[44:12] Danielle:

Usually the chat. Yeah. Yeah.

[44:14] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

But um, it is really important if you can stomach those conversations. I mean, I literally have heard everything going, so nothing will shock me about common.

[44:25] Danielle:

Anything any massive ones come to mind where you’re like, it that was interesting.

[44:29] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

But do you know the m the well, I’ve had um I mean couples where there aren’t just two people, for example. That’s a very hard thing to make a financial plan for.

[44:40] Sammie Ellard-King:

What do you mean?

[44:41] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

What do you mean? What do I mean? Throuples.

[44:43] Sammie Ellard-King:

Th throuples.

[44:44] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yes.

[44:45] Sammie Ellard-King:

This is a thing.

[44:46] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yes, of course. Who needs to get with it? And that’s not an uncommon well, it’s not an everyday occurrence, but um that would be a financial plan that for me is amazing to build.

[45:00] Sammie Ellard-King:

Well, I I mean I know like in some other cultures they have multiple wives. Is that is that what we’re going with?

[45:05] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

No, so uh I’m married to my husband, but I also have a boyfriend, let’s say. I don’t, but that would be an example. I also have a boyfriend.

[45:20] Sammie Ellard-King:

No, uh oh, okay, interesting.

[45:22] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yes.

[45:22] Sammie Ellard-King:

And so This is a this is a thing.

[45:24] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yes.

[45:25] Sammie Ellard-King:

Wow.

[45:26] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah.

[45:26] Sammie Ellard-King:

Oh my god, I I’m seriously well out the loop here.

[45:29] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah, very shallow.

[45:34] Danielle:

Just a bit, yeah. I don’t know. I just don’t pay attention to these. Okay, cool.

[45:38] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

You get your jaw off the floor. Um, but yes, so we we really do know people’s inner secrets as financial advisors, and the plan has to be 100% personal. Whatever the circumstances.

[45:54] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah, I love it. It’s crazy though, because you wouldn’t expect these things to happen, but then actually people have as well. I imagine as well, it’s quite difficult when there’s like multiple kids involved.

[46:08] Producer:

Yeah.

[46:08] Sammie Ellard-King:

And then also, especially as they’re coming into latter stages of and you have to try and get them to look at this logically because you know I’ve had friends of mine that have got more in wills than other children and those types of conversations, but that’s been pre-agreed with an advisor and done on a will, um, which is messy, right?

[46:28] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah, I’ve literally sat on a sofa with a couple there and the other couple there, and they’re having a a row, a financial row with me in the middle, because money is a really emotional topic.

[46:40] Sammie Ellard-King:

Totally.

[46:41] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

And my job is to listen and to really listen to both sides of the story. And uh if if if if you’re doing the the session for a couple and one person is particularly dominating in the conversation, the other person’s not saying much, I’m really keen to understand what makes that person happy. Yes, um, and what goals they want to achieve. Because if if it doesn’t satisfy everybody, then um it’s not the perfect plan. And that’s what I want to try and achieve. Yeah. Um I did an Instagram post up yesterday and it said um in a five-dixal diagnosis session, it said no stone went uh went unturned. And I thought, I’m gonna take that as a compliment. But we only have an hour, so you there’s good things. You could have lots of questions.

[47:24] Danielle:

So that’s why you hit them with the hard ones. Let’s just get this out of the way. And they come out of it 15 minutes in sweating.

[47:33] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

I mean, needing a breather after it.

[47:36] Danielle:

Yeah, yeah, or a stiff one.

[47:37] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah, whatever whatever way you look at it. Um the um we are getting into the summer, it’s very hot in here today. Um, sorry if I walked in extremely sweaty um after being late. I do apologise about that. But holidays are upon us, and there are shorter term things in your clients’ goals. Yeah, I want to do this this year, I want to buy the fancy car or do the extension or what these types of things. How do we work on these shorter term aspects of our life, but still think about the long?

[48:14] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah, so I think they need to be just pre-planned. That’s all. It doesn’t need to be pre-planned by five years, but the holiday that you’re going on, the money for the let’s say you’re an impulsive person and you like to book a holiday last minute. That’s not me. That would freak me out.

[48:31] Sammie Ellard-King:

It’s me.

[48:31] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Or we wouldn’t make good holiday companions.

[48:33] Sammie Ellard-King:

Oh, I’m sorry about that. You my other half is like you. Oh, yeah. Uh that’s she’s like, oh, we’re going here, and I don’t want to know about it. And so they’re like, oh, we’re going tomorrow. I just um I’m weird like that.

[48:43] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

I well, I think we we have equally weird traits on it, but um, but um let’s say you are impulsive, the the f the money you’re going to spend can be pre-planned. So this year I’m going to spend £5,000 on holidays.

[48:59] Sammie Ellard-King:

Oh, we definitely do that.

[49:00] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

10,000 on holidays. So I think setting that up really early on and having your budget and yeah, having your pots that you say um is um really, really important. And then at the beginning of the year, if you’ve worked out this number, what you need to do every year to achieve your goals, you can then work out how to divide up your spare money to get the maximum fun out of it. So, where are you leaking money on things that don’t offer you personal satisfaction? They might be things that other people deem to be important to them, but for you, personal satisfaction, where can you get the most bang for your buck? Okay. Um, on fun or experiences, or is it eating in nice restaurants, or is it going to the theatre and the cinema and things like that, or is it just staying home and being cozy? Um, so I think working that out and setting your priorities, and if something doesn’t align with what you want to spend money on, then don’t, but spend it on the things that really give you personal satisfaction.

[50:02] Sammie Ellard-King:

It’s so hard though with Apple Pay and things on your phone now, and you’re like now, now, now, now, you know, prime delivery within an hour, etc. And it’s like we live in that really fast-paced culture. So uh I what I would like to say to people is that you are not going to win all of the battles.

[50:18] Producer:

Yeah.

[50:19] Sammie Ellard-King:

And that is totally fine. But if you win most of them, then you’re gonna be doing okay.

[50:24] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

And and don’t give yourself a hard time because everyone who assumes that I’m really good with money. I’m not. Um, but I am really good at sticking to a rule. So I’ve had to make my financial plan um be literally Lisa shopping proof.

[50:43] Sammie Ellard-King:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So is your vice shopping?

[50:45] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

It’s clothes, it’s holidays, it’s shiny things. So the way I do it for me, and you’ve got to find your financial personality, really, I think. So for me, the day that I pay myself, the money that I know I have to pay to set aside into savings, my ICEs and pensions is gone. And then I put money from then into the joint account, which pays my bills, food, life, and then money goes into the kids’ accounts for like termly costs and things like that. And then whatever’s left, I really don’t feel guilty about spending it because I’ve done everything I need to, and then I will spend it. Yeah, because that’s my personality.

[51:30] Sammie Ellard-King:

We I do exactly the same, and we talk about this a lot. Like we have the three bank systems. So it’s like your money comes in, you pay yourself first, savings and investments, then your money goes into bank number two, and that runs your bills and your life, joint account, whatever that might well be. Then bank number one, woo, yeah, you know, like let’s go wild. But also with that as well, like if you are if let’s say, you know, you look at that number and that number scares you, then you can then like bring that number to okay, each week I have 250 pounds or 500 pounds or whatever that might well be to run my life. And then you don’t feel as guilty about like, you know, I’m gonna go out and buy myself a new pair of shoes or something like that.

[52:06] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

But we shouldn’t feel guilty. If we’ve done the right thing first, we should enjoy it.

[52:11] Sammie Ellard-King:

It’s the pre-plan.

[52:12] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yes.

[52:13] Sammie Ellard-King:

You know, and also the system takes 10 minutes to set up and it runs your life forever.

[52:17] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

And maybe you don’t get the say you did the same thing, but you hadn’t pre-planned it. Maybe you don’t get the same enjoyment either. So the bit of pre-planning actually is I I’m allowed this, I’m I deserve this, this is what I work hard for. And then do it and enjoy it. Yeah. Don’t be sneaking your bags in through the side door.

[52:34] Sammie Ellard-King:

No, uh now I don’t get told off for my farm shop splurges, basically. Okay. Yeah.

[52:39] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Too many strawberries this week.

[52:40] Sammie Ellard-King:

It is no, yeah. Do you know what it is? It’s the it’s the meat counter. I just like I come back and I’m like, this steak tastes 30 times better. It it it it it does taste better, but definitely not 30 times better. Would cook a mean barbecue.

[52:58] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Well, he used to have pig’s tails. Oh, and peeled them with a potato peeler.

[53:04] Sammie Ellard-King:

What?

[53:04] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

That used to freak me out as a kid.

[53:07] Sammie Ellard-King:

That’s a thing. It’s a thing. But I swear I’m missing out on a lot of life today. I don’t know. Where have I been all of these years? I need to get out more, Danielle. We’re scheduling some outdoor activities. Um, but I think like to bring this to a close, I think, because this has been a lovely podcast, and I think there’s so much value in it for people as well. And I’m like as why I really wanted to have you on, because I just I like the way you approach it. It’s like, it’s not like you need to do this. It’s like, no, no, let’s just be logical and let’s look at it and let’s sort it out based on you and your life. Everything’s unique because we say it all the time like personal finance is personal, yeah. It’s different for every single person in this room and every single person you meet on the street, and never have a budget the same. And so we’ve got to treat it like that. And that’s why financial advisors sometimes for me get it wrong, is they don’t have that like person aspect first. And actually, technically, you’re kind of a a life coach alongside it, right? And the best ones are, you know, they get the person right first. Um, but financial advice can be quite a stickler for some people at certain points in life. And do you feel like everybody needs it? Because obviously everybody can’t always afford it.

[54:22] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah. Well, obviously, no one needs bad financial advice. I think that’s the first thing you’ve got to be really careful the kind of advice that you’re getting. And for me, as an independent advisor, um I think you have to go independently. You’ve got to go with someone who is um got your interests only at heart, not just a list of things they could possibly sell you. Um and then well, we’ve designed the service in such a way that I think you don’t everybody doesn’t need financial advice from your very first paycheck, but just to dip in and out every couple of years to get a sense check, I think is really helpful. Um, but also when I look back, when I was once a 26-year-old financial advisor, um, how anyone trusted me, I don’t know, because I look 12. Um, but they still did. Um, and some of those clients, well, a lot of those clients are still with me.

[55:16] Sammie Ellard-King:

Oh, that’s nice.

[55:17] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Yeah, it it’s it’s a and well, I love them, honestly. They’ve been with me through all the changes in my career. And so if you’re younger and thinking I don’t have the money to be with um an advisor that’s say got a half a million pound minimum, you can go and find someone who’s at that stage of their career. And there’s some amazing um financial advisors out there, really, really well qualified, um, that will be in their early mid to 20s, um that you could sort of tag along with. And as they grow, you grow and you go, you go both on this career journey together. Yeah. And they’d be very happy to have a growing car base. So you can find um you can find financial advisors on a company called Vouched For.

[56:03] Sammie Ellard-King:

Vouched for.

[56:04] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Vouched for. It’s like the um, I can’t think of it’s like a rating service for financial advisors.

[56:10] Producer:

Compare the market for uh financial advisors.

[56:14] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Um and you can see what what real people have actually said about them. Right. And you can’t, as an advisor, you can control who you ask to send a review a review. So if someone’s got loads of reviews, you know that they’re sending it to everyone. Someone’s got five or ten, you know they’re probably just cherry. Cherry picking the good ones. They’re gonna get you um the the best one. So I think that’s a good place. Um but yes.

[56:37] Sammie Ellard-King:

And you mentioned obviously your cash flow sessions. Yeah. Um, how do people go about doing that?

[56:43] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Will they um get in touch or um so we do 20 a month and they do get really booked up. So you um either can go on the website of Miss Lolly or LCH Wealth, and there’s a lady called Abby who books them all in and arranges them, and she’ll send you everything to prep in advance. But yes, we’re um if this is going out in July, then September’s will already be open. Okay, brilliant. And then um in August you can book October.

[57:09] Sammie Ellard-King:

We’ll leave um Abby’s contact details in the show notes below for people as well, because I think that could be really, really valuable. And you know, I think as well, as I said before, you know, you come across so l well and nice. And I think that it you break the stigma like and that overwhelm and fear immediately, other than the really harsh questions that you ask people at the beginning. But yeah, as long as you can get over that, you’re you’re gonna be a good hand. But uh I’ve loved this. And is that where you want to send people today?

[57:36] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Is that yeah, so it Miss Lolly, um um on Instagram and then Miss Lolly.com is the website, and then LCH Wealth.

[57:43] Sammie Ellard-King:

Okay. Thanks so much for coming.

[57:44] Lisa Conway-Hughes:

Thank you for having me.